Covid screens to be removed from pubs, offices and restaurants after they are found to increase transmission

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Amity Island

Amity Island

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Type 1
Even though we have learnt a lot in the 18 months it has been around, there is still so much that is not yet known and so many anomalies. It is very hard to know where we can go from here and move to being back to a normal life.
Even if and when restrictions are lifted, self imposed restrictions in behaviour are making life not feel normal.
We visited somewhere on Sunday which would normally have been really busy but it was deserted, how the poor businesses are managing to survive goodness knows.
 
@Amity Island - your last sentence. Consider if you will, the impact of them losing all their grandparents and both their parents to Covid, when compared to those things you mention. You have to weigh up the pros and cons - which would have been better for them, should you think?

We have 2 daughters. No1 - who got married to a lovely chap when she already had had one daughter - and subsequently had a boy and a girl, so those 3 have a dad, plus their maternal grandad. The other one has 4 daughters by 3 different blokes, none of whom bothered to stick around very long and hence the only male figure in any of their lives is Grandad Pete, my husband - and they all love him, trust him, turn to him for advice. Oh yeah he's old alright, he has COPD - so when he pops his clogs, whenever that happens to occur, goodness only knows what the knock on effect on all their lives might be - and three of the granddaughters also have children ..... Not simple, but hardly unusual in 2021.

How the hell do you arrange things that will be the right solution for everyone whether they happen to have families or not and keep commerce running seamlessly whilst you're at it and by the way, just sort out devolved UK Government, the NHS and a painless transition from being part of the EU while you're on, all without upsetting anyone at all?

You are the Government and know whatever you do, someone's going to say it's wrong anyway, so you can't win!
 
I know of one family where a grandchild was taken to visit older generations of the family just before Christmas to deliver and collect presents, which resulted in all of them falling ill as she had caught covid at school but her parents thought she had a bit of a cold. No one died, but they were very ill and are still suffering the effects.
Some of the families of school friends did lose older members and where the children realised they'd infected them they were extremely distressed.
 
This Covid thing is just horrible. Horrible. Horrible.
 
Drummer said:
I know of one family where a grandchild was taken to visit older generations of the family just before Christmas to deliver and collect presents, which resulted in all of them falling ill as she had caught covid at school but her parents thought she had a bit of a cold. No one died, but they were very ill and are still suffering the effects.
Some of the families of school friends did lose older members and where the children realised they'd infected them they were extremely distressed.
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That was certainly one of the well known effects that a lot of people seemed totally oblivious to that it was not necessarily the direct contact with an individual but the indirect ones. We have stayed well away from my family with then working in the NHS and with school age children.
I only now know a couple of people who have been told to self isolate so this is still not going away.
It really is a case of the invisible enemy being your worst enemy.
 
trophywench said:
@Amity Island - your last sentence. Consider if you will, the impact of them losing all their grandparents and both their parents to Covid, when compared to those things you mention. You have to weigh up the pros and cons - which would have been better for them, should you think?

We have 2 daughters. No1 - who got married to a lovely chap when she already had had one daughter - and subsequently had a boy and a girl, so those 3 have a dad, plus their maternal grandad. The other one has 4 daughters by 3 different blokes, none of whom bothered to stick around very long and hence the only male figure in any of their lives is Grandad Pete, my husband - and they all love him, trust him, turn to him for advice. Oh yeah he's old alright, he has COPD - so when he pops his clogs, whenever that happens to occur, goodness only knows what the knock on effect on all their lives might be - and three of the granddaughters also have children ..... Not simple, but hardly unusual in 2021.

How the hell do you arrange things that will be the right solution for everyone whether they happen to have families or not and keep commerce running seamlessly whilst you're at it and by the way, just sort out devolved UK Government, the NHS and a painless transition from being part of the EU while you're on, all without upsetting anyone at all?

You are the Government and know whatever you do, someone's going to say it's wrong anyway, so you can't win!
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You doubly vaccinate all vulnerable people as a priority (which we essentially completed many weeks ago) and then start opening up the economy again whilst vaccinating as many other adults as possible.

There isn't another way to go as far as I can see which protects society and keeps a functioning economy to pay for everything.

The issue here is less what the government are doing and the pace at which they are doing it and the order in which they are doing it. The government can only make decisions about what's best for society in general and not about individual families - as difficult as that is for people to hear.

And no, they can't win. No government can. Whatever decision they make to help one person will hurt someone else.
 
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Leadinglights said:
That was certainly one of the well known effects that a lot of people seemed totally oblivious to that it was not necessarily the direct contact with an individual but the indirect ones. We have stayed well away from my family with then working in the NHS and with school age children.
I only now know a couple of people who have been told to self isolate so this is still not going away.
It really is a case of the invisible enemy being your worst enemy.
Click to expand...
Oh it was direct contact - the child was driven from one house to another after being picked up from school, hugs all round cards and presents exchanged. Half a dozen households were involved but the grandparents were the ones worst affected - some still have problems.
It was against all the guidelines, but some people were ignoring them and getting away with it, others didn't.
 
Drummer said:
Oh it was direct contact - the child was driven from one house to another after being picked up from school, hugs all round cards and presents exchanged. Half a dozen households were involved but the grandparents were the ones worst affected - some still have problems.
It was against all the guidelines, but some people were ignoring them and getting away with it, others didn't.
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And rightly or wrongly, in the real world, you will always have lots of people who will not allow themselves to be told what to do by other people.
Not everyone likes to obey the instructions of others.
Not everyone cares about the consequences of their actions on others.
That is a fact of life I'm afraid.

And governments know this.

As in every other way of life, you only expect a certain number of people to fall into line and you govern accordingly.
That's as true for covid restrictions as it is for things like obeying laws and paying taxes - their are millions of people for whom the latter two are essentially optional in all but name.
 
Inka said:
Looks like ventilation systems might be the way forward. I really wish Covid would fade away and then we wouldn’t have to “live with it”.
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Its very unlikely to ever fade away inka it will be with us for a very long time it has and will continue to mutate just like the flu every year and they will continue with new vaccines and we will have to live with it just as we do with other illnesses and viruses.
 
Inka said:
Looks like ventilation systems might be the way forward. I really wish Covid would fade away and then we wouldn’t have to “live with it”.
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Its very unlikely to ever fade away inka it will be with us for a very long time it has and will continue to mutate just like the flu every year and they will continue with new vaccines and we will have to live with it just as we do with other illnesses and viruses.
 
Matchless said:
Its very unlikely to ever fade away inka it will be with us for a very long time it has and will continue to mutate just like the flu every year and they will continue with new vaccines and we will have to live with it just as we do with other illnesses and viruses.
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Agreed.

It could well fade away of course but the likelihood is we're just going to have to add covid to the ever lengthening list of things which can kill us and our loved ones and get on with living our lives. We only get a few short years as it is and giving up one of them for this damn thing is quite enough for many of us. Fortunately we have vaccines now which allow us to move on.
 
Matchless said:
Its very unlikely to ever fade away inka it will be with us for a very long time it has and will continue to mutate just like the flu every year and they will continue with new vaccines and we will have to live with it just as we do with other illnesses and viruses.
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I’m hoping it will mutate itself into a less harmful form eventually. More like a cold than flu.
 
Inka said:
I’m hoping it will mutate itself into a less harmful form eventually. More like a cold than flu.
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It already appears to be doing that.

After 4 months, the Indian variant is not causing the serious hospitalisation and death numbers we were seeing during the first 2 peaks. Those who are hospitalised are not as seriously ill as before - even amongst those unvaccinated.
 
pm133 said:
After 4 months, the Indian variant is not causing the serious hospitalisation and death numbers we were seeing during the first 2 peaks. Those who are hospitalised are not as seriously ill as before - even amongst those unvaccinated.
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That's just changes in the patient population, isn't it?

I've no heard anyone say that this Delta variant is less virulent. (I'm not sure how much more virulent it's thought to be. Estimates seem to vary.)
 
Not that anybody will behave differently 'next time we have a pandemic' either - OK Boris Matt Chris and JVT may be wise after the event right now, but by next time if there is one, none of them will be in a position that the Gov of the day will be minded to listen to! (except knowing upfront they're not spending that sort of money ever again ..... )
 
Really hope screens stay in cafes restaurants.

We often have lunch in Morrisons when shopping who have screens between tables, covid aside feel lot less likely to pick up germs from other people sitting at other tables, more so in winter with cold & flu doing rounds & folk sneezing & coughing.
 
Amity Island said:
After advising businesses and spending millions on installing screens throughout offices, shops, restaurants and cafes to prevent transmisson, current advice is saying this actually makes things worse by blocking air circulation, now the advice is to remove them.

inews.co.uk

Perspex screens should be scrapped over fears they increase Covid transmission, Government told

Ministers are understood to be drawing up plans for long-term restrictions for living with Covid
inews.co.uk inews.co.uk
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It beggars belief that anyone in government thought perspex screens could block an airborne virus in the first place.

Honestly, between perspex screens and masks, you have to start seriously questioning the credentials of some of these "scientists" because they don't seem to understand the basics of the thermodynamics which govern how air moves around and particles spread out spontaneously.

A few years ago now, the minister in charge of science (who I believe had a science degree) was asked by the press to explain the 2nd law of thermodynamics during a media briefing and he couldn't do it. Maybe these questions need to be asked of the current incumbents. This might sound a bit trite but we shouldn't be allowing anyone to make expensive and intrusive decisions like this when they clearly have no idea what the hell they are talking about.

For the layman, here's a wee explanation.
Get someone to spray a small amount of perfume in a corner of a room.
See how long it takes before the entire room smells of it.
Try it in another room whilst wearing a mask and you'll still smell it so that is telling you how effective your mask is.
Try it in a 3rd room and hide behind a perspex screen and you'll still smell it.
Now a layman can satisfy themselves in 3 minutes that masks and screens are useless against water-based aerosols (of which your breath is one) so why can't the people who are asking us all to inconvenience ourselves do it as well. No expensive equipment required.

It's very hard to put into words how disappointing it is for someone like me who loves the discipline of science to see the people at the top of a wonderful profession spouting so much utterly, incomprehensibly, incompetent garbage in the name of something I hold very dear. You always assume they are experts and know what they are doing. Clearly they don't. It's a bit like finally meeting Paul McCartney and finding that he doesn't know actually know how to write music at all and that he was using a ghost writer to create his songs.

It is extremelt damaging that our top scientists show no real understanding of the prblem they are trying to fix. We cannot possibly then trust their advice for how to fix those problems. How on earth did it come to it that THESE incompetent people are in charge at the worst point of our country's existence since 1945.
 
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Amity Island said:
After advising businesses and spending millions on installing screens throughout offices, shops, restaurants and cafes to prevent transmisson, current advice is saying this actually makes things worse by blocking air circulation, now the advice is to remove them.

inews.co.uk

Perspex screens should be scrapped over fears they increase Covid transmission, Government told

Ministers are understood to be drawing up plans for long-term restrictions for living with Covid
inews.co.uk inews.co.uk
Click to expand...

As you know, I've spent the last 14 months or so watching with horror and disbelief at the actions and words of the people at the top of my profession.

50 Tory MPs are trying to bring in a new law preventing spontaneous lockdowns without a parliamentary vote and that all of the scientific advisors have to appear before MPs to be grilled on the justification of their advice AND that these scientists should be held accountable for their advice.
I find myself in full agreement with all of that and I think it's the only way science can ever recover from this disastrous period in its history. Our discipline has shown itself to be no better than the quackery seen in the medical profession before the 20th century. The reputational damage has been such that extreme measures need to be taken.
Society should demand these measures are introduced as soon as possible.

I have a lot of sympathy for the government because these guys are not experts in anything. What leading scientists advising them have done is unforgiveable.
 
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