COVID is not and ‘has never been a pandemic’

[Amity Island]

A QUOTE FROM SKY NEWS - LATEST ON COVID19

Better safe than sorry, some would argue. But not German microbiologist Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi. He says drastic anti-COVID-19 measures “are grotesque, absurd and very dangerous.”

While some fear COVID-19 will infect one million Germans and kill 30 every day, Bhakdi says typical flus kill 20 to 100 people every day anyway. “The horrifying impact on the world economy threatens the existence of countless people . . . [Medical] services to patients in need are reduced . . . . All these measures are leading to self-destruction and collective suicide based on nothing but a spook.”

Dr. Joel Kettner was the former Chief Public Health Officer for Manitoba and the Medical Director of the International Centre for Infectious Diseases. He told CBC radio, “I have never seen anything like this, anything anywhere near like this. I’m not talking about the pandemic, because I’ve seen 30 of them, one every year. It is called influenza. And other respiratory illness viruses, we don’t always know what they are. But I’ve never seen this reaction, and I’m trying to understand why.”

COVID-19 Panic Worse Than Disease | Frontier Centre For Public Policy

fcpp.org

 

[Amity Island]

The world's response is a first, that's for sure, as nothing like this happened as a result of the 1968 Hong Kong Flu outbreak for example.

I believe the 1968 virus is still around today, which suggests Covid-19 will also most likely be with us for years to come, maybe always, with or without lockdowns.

Anitram, this too is well worth a watch.

 

[Gyles77]

Thanks for sharing. As far as I know majority of the people called Covid-19 as a pandemic.

 

[Inka]

There’s a chart somewhere online showing how Covid is not like flu and how the numbers killed are much higher. Worth a google.

 

[Northerner]

The thing with Covid is that it's not just how many people die (although the death rate is higher than flu) it's how many people get infected and need treatment, and are left with life-changing complications. We've already seen how the health systems of countries can become overwhelmed, and we're seeing it happening again now. Those who think the NHS wasn't overwhelmed in the first wave need to look at the excess deaths and hugely-lengthened waiting lists. When people get sick with Covid you can't just leave them to their fate, so just 'living with it' instead of taking measures to supress it is a ridiculous notion. Even if it only affects a very small percentage of younger, healthier individuals, on a whole population scale that's still a lot of people - and you can't only 'protect the vulnerable' because, whilst there are some who obviously fit the category, there are plenty who don't. The whole argument smacks of Eugenics

 

[Amigo]

The thing with Covid is that it's not just how many people die (although the death rate is higher than flu) it's how many people get infected and need treatment, and are left with life-changing complications. We've already seen how the health systems of countries can become overwhelmed, and we're seeing it happening again now. Those who think the NHS wasn't overwhelmed in the first wave need to look at the excess deaths and hugely-lengthened waiting lists. When people get sick with Covid you can't just leave them to their fate, so just 'living with it' instead of taking measures to supress it is a ridiculous notion. Even if it only affects a very small percentage of younger, healthier individuals, on a whole population scale that's still a lot of people - and you can't only 'protect the vulnerable' because, whilst there are some who obviously fit the category, there are plenty who don't. The whole argument smacks of Eugenics

Most sensible, balanced description I’ve heard in a while so thanks northerner. Feeling particularly raw about this as I lost a valued friend yesterday to Covid. He was very early 60’s with no serious underlying health conditions and it killed him within 3 weeks. I’m pretty darn sure I wouldn’t be writing this had it been flu!

 

[Eddy Edson]

you can't only 'protect the vulnerable' because, whilst there are some who obviously fit the category, there are plenty who don't.

And also because if you let the thing spread in the community there's no way in the world you will actually be able to protect the vulnerable, unless you put them in plastic bubbles and use constantly-sterilised robots to care for them and feed them or something. If there's a lot of cirus floating around the community, it will get into old folks homes, and it will kill lots and lots of them. It's depressing that this needs to be argued about after all this time and all the evidence.

 

[mikeyB]

The thing with Covid is that it's not just how many people die (although the death rate is higher than flu) it's how many people get infected and need treatment, and are left with life-changing complications. We've already seen how the health systems of countries can become overwhelmed, and we're seeing it happening again now. Those who think the NHS wasn't overwhelmed in the first wave need to look at the excess deaths and hugely-lengthened waiting lists. When people get sick with Covid you can't just leave them to their fate, so just 'living with it' instead of taking measures to supress it is a ridiculous notion. Even if it only affects a very small percentage of younger, healthier individuals, on a whole population scale that's still a lot of people - and you can't only 'protect the vulnerable' because, whilst there are some who obviously fit the category, there are plenty who don't. The whole argument smacks of Eugenics

So how many are left with life changing complications? Any more than measles? Mumps? I doubt it very much. And flu has killed more people worldwide than Covid ever will. H1N1 flu killed 40 million 1918-1920. A recurrence would do exactly the same.

There's a reason why the UK has such a bad death'n'complcation record, and that is the patently feeble and inept response from the UK government. Same thing exactly happened in 1918, it took local authorities, initially in Manchester, to impose the restrictions that we now see with Covid.

I agree that the current government attitude smacks of eugenics, but the Spanish flu in 1918 killed folk from kings to paupers. It was the virus that was doing the eugenics - it mainly killed the 20-50 age group. Had Covid done that, the government response would have been very different, and a sight more effective.

 

[Eddy Edson]

And flu has killed more people worldwide than Covid ever will.

Why so confident about that?

Spanish flu apparently killed about 230K people in the UK. I can't see much reason for being confident of less than 1,000 deaths/day resulting from the current daily infections, or much reason for being confident that the infection rate won't accelerate. It's not an enormous stretch to see 230K UK deaths before this filthy thing is tamed. I mean, I'd bet small amounts of money against it, but I wouldn't bet the house.

 

[Welsh Wizard]

A QUOTE FROM SKY NEWS - LATEST ON COVID19

Better safe than sorry, some would argue. But not German microbiologist Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi. He says drastic anti-COVID-19 measures “are grotesque, absurd and very dangerous.”

While some fear COVID-19 will infect one million Germans and kill 30 every day, Bhakdi says typical flus kill 20 to 100 people every day anyway. “The horrifying impact on the world economy threatens the existence of countless people . . . [Medical] services to patients in need are reduced . . . . All these measures are leading to self-destruction and collective suicide based on nothing but a spook.”

Dr. Joel Kettner was the former Chief Public Health Officer for Manitoba and the Medical Director of the International Centre for Infectious Diseases. He told CBC radio, “I have never seen anything like this, anything anywhere near like this. I’m not talking about the pandemic, because I’ve seen 30 of them, one every year. It is called influenza. And other respiratory illness viruses, we don’t always know what they are. But I’ve never seen this reaction, and I’m trying to understand why.”

COVID-19 Panic Worse Than Disease | Frontier Centre For Public Policy

fcpp.org

Hey, I'm a newbie but have to take issue on this one. I think, if you listen to the majority of expert analysis, what you're saying is similar to those idots who protested in London again, the anti Coronavirus mob. Let's get real here. One life lost is one too many. Being a diabetic, and having had a father and grandfather both of whom had diabetes I am always concious of taking my illness seriously. Not just for my own personal benefit but to try to ensure that I don't become an irresponsible burden on the NHS or society in general. Anyone who believes that Coronavirus is "just another flu virus" has completely lost their marbles. Yes, in comparison with the total population of the UK the mortality rates are about 0.05% to 0.07% but we are supposed to be one of the most advanced and wealthiest countries in the world, so what the hells gone wrong? Maybe it's the trivialisation of the virus from sectors of society, and I'm not pointing a finger here purely at the youth, which has led to the second wave. I don't think anyone really has the answer but please, please, please, let's not think that this virus is just going to go away and for those out there who doubt it's tenacity I think that 48000+ in our population should be enough to prove otherwise.

 

[Northerner]

Most sensible, balanced description I’ve heard in a while so thanks northerner. Feeling particularly raw about this as I lost a valued friend yesterday to Covid. He was very early 60’s with no serious underlying health conditions and it killed him within 3 weeks. I’m pretty darn sure I wouldn’t be writing this had it been flu!

I'm very sorry to hear about your friend @Amigo

 

[Bruce Stephens]

And also because if you let the thing spread in the community there's no way in the world you will actually be able to protect the vulnerable, unless you put them in plastic bubbles and use constantly-sterilised robots to care for them and feed them or something.

As someone else commented, the idea seems about as likely to succeed as a urine free lane in a swimming pool.

 

[Amity Island]

Let's get real here. One life lost is one too many.

Precisely, and lockdowns have caused more deaths than covid19. Look at the care homes for starters. Old people being thrown out of hospitals, without having time to even pick up their false teeth, transfered into carehomes spreading infections to other residents, killing many. Suicides related to mental health struggles, isolation, innability to get hospital treatments, being told to stay at home, huge job losses, business failures, cancelled holidays, loss of income, loss of homes. The list is endless.

As I said in my previous post, I think the virus is very real, but the response is surreal.

 

[mikeyB]

Hey, I'm a newbie but have to take issue on this one. I think, if you listen to the majority of expert analysis, what you're saying is similar to those idots who protested in London again, the anti Coronavirus mob. Let's get real here. One life lost is one too many. Being a diabetic, and having had a father and grandfather both of whom had diabetes I am always concious of taking my illness seriously. Not just for my own personal benefit but to try to ensure that I don't become an irresponsible burden on the NHS or society in general. Anyone who believes that Coronavirus is "just another flu virus" has completely lost their marbles. Yes, in comparison with the total population of the UK the mortality rates are about 0.05% to 0.07% but we are supposed to be one of the most advanced and wealthiest countries in the world, so what the hells gone wrong? Maybe it's the trivialisation of the virus from sectors of society, and I'm not pointing a finger here purely at the youth, which has led to the second wave. I don't think anyone really has the answer but please, please, please, let's not think that this virus is just going to go away and for those out there who doubt it's tenacity I think that 48000+ in our population should be enough to prove otherwise.

What the hell's gone wrong? The stupidity of the government imposing lockdown too late, which probably accounts for 20,000 deaths, lifting the lockdown by too much too soon, and cruelly sending Covid patients back into nursing homes to infect everyone there. And then along came Dominic Cummings, breaking every rule imposed by the government, but getting off without even a reprimand. That was the point that government lost the plot, or the approval of the people. Scientists at the time thought that this might provoke a second wave, as the population could see that flouting the rules had no consequences.

Every excess death can be laid at the door of the government from day 1 to now. They have been consistently reactive rather than proactive, which is completely wrong in a pandemic. And now they completely ignore SAGE advice to have a short 2-3 week full lockdown,so they keep the schools open, and think that closing pubs at ten will help. That is not scientific advice. It's lunacy. When I was at Uni in St Andrews, all the pubs shut at ten and were never open on Sundays.Didn't stop folk getting legless, I can assure you.

Haven't you noticed that the mantra "We are following the science" has been dropped? What do you expect to happen where this government ignores the advice of scientists?

 

[Amity Island]

To me, if you listen to what the presenter is saying, he is saying that the actual number of covid deaths is way below what the official figures are suggesting. These over counted "covid" deaths stats, is what everyone seems to be arguing about and making the case on as justification of the destruction/lockdowns of our way of life.

Every death, where someone tests positive for covid19 has, and is being given a "covid19" as the cause of death.

Doesn't matter if someone went in with pneumonia, a stroke, heart attack or cancer. As a result of this policy, BBC news only last night, are now making it clear on all news reports that death stats are based on "all deaths! (note not covid caused deaths) where somone tested positive within 28days of death". This means that the true figure for covid deaths is going to be much lower than the 0.07% being quoted.

There is a fundamental difference between dying from covid19 and dying from something else "with" a positive covid19 test.

This is the reason I think, that he says covid19 is not a pandemic, because of low death rates, which have been falling from April to October. And deaths is purley what the lockdowns should be based on, not infections. I would of expected deaths to increase over that period, not go down in a pandemic.

 

[mikeyB]

Why so confident about that?

Spanish flu apparently killed about 230K people in the UK. I can't see much reason for being confident of less than 1,000 deaths/day resulting from the current daily infections, or much reason for being confident that the infection rate won't accelerate. It's not an enormous stretch to see 230K UK deaths before this filthy thing is tamed. I mean, I'd bet small amounts of money against it, but I wouldn't bet the house.

I'm confident about that because Covid kills a small number of people it infects. Spanish flu kills half the people it infects.

 

[Welsh Wizard]

To me, if you listen to what the presenter is saying, he is saying that the actual number of covid deaths is way below what the official figures are suggesting. These over counted "covid" deaths stats, is what everyone seems to be arguing about and making the case on as justification of the destruction/lockdowns of our way of life.

Every death, where someone tests positive for covid19 has, and is being given a "covid19" as the cause of death.

Doesn't matter if someone went in with pneumonia, a stroke, heart attack or cancer. As a result of this policy, BBC news only last night, are now making it clear on all news reports that death stats are based on "all deaths! (note not covid caused deaths) where somone tested positive within 28days of death". This means that the true figure for covid deaths is going to be much lower than the 0.07% being quoted.

There is a fundamental difference between dying from covid19 and dying from something else "with" a positive covid19 test.

This is the reason I think, that he says covid19 is not a pandemic, because of low death rates, which have been falling from April to October. And deaths is purley what the lockdowns should be based on, not infections.

Are you really trying to convince the majority of the Public or yourself about the devastating effects of coronavirus?
The initial article that you refered to in your thread was presented by a). an Australia anchorman and b). Sky news
The one thing that I probably agree with you on is the media especially when it presents Oceana as being an example of containment. But if you are going to use Sky News as your source of expert knowledge you are truely way off track.

Try this link https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

43,000,000 plus positive cases worldwide 1.1 million plus deaths. Get real! If covid was the cause or even part of the cause your logic just doesn't hold.

Sorry but your arguement doesn't convince me . Time to move on to reality

 

[Amity Island]

Sorry but your arguement doesn't convince me . Time to move on to reality

Are you saying you agree with the official stats?

 

[Welsh Wizard]

Are you saying you agree with the official stats?

If you are merely relying on the graphs you are pretty sad. Everyone of those million people is a life lost . You cannot argue with that. I am sorry to say that I just hope that for your sake you don't become one of those statistics.

 

[Amity Island]

If you are merely relying on the graphs you are pretty sad. Everyone of those million people is a life lost . You cannot argue with that. I am sorry to say that I just hope that for your sake you don't become one of those statistics.

Thanks for your insulting reply. As soon as you resort to insults to make your case, then you've lost the argument.

What else is anyone going to refer to? This is the offical record, showing how deaths have dropped dramatically since it was announced as a pandemic. I am not and have never suggested it isn't serious or that people haven't or aren't still suffering.

b.t.w my argument is more about the response, than the virus.