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Covid-19

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Steve_H

Active Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
I am unable to add to previous Covid-19 thread, as it says it is closed for further comments, so I have started a new one.

Can someone tell me how the government/national health advisers have decided that those with diabetes, especially Type 1 should still go to work when statics have shown that 26% of those who have died had diabetes. Studies have shown that you are 4 times more likely of a poor outcome if you get Covid.

The Chief Medical Officer on behalf of the government have created a QCCOVID risk calculator (https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3731) to enable them decide who most at risk - see extraction below.

Policy implication and conclusions
This study presents robust risk prediction models that could be used to stratify risk in populations for public health purposes in the event of a “second wave” of the pandemic and support shared management of risk. We anticipate that the algorithms will be updated regularly as understanding of covid-19 increases, as more data become available, as behaviour in the population changes, or in response to new policy interventions. It is important for patients/carers and clinicians that a common, appropriately developed, evidence based model exists that is consistently implemented and is supported by the academic, clinical, and patient communities. This will then help to ensure consistent policy and clear national communication between policy makers, professionals, employers, and the public.

However this hasn't been used and surely the likes of Diabetes UK and Dr Partha Kar, as national diabetic advisor should be lobbing the Chief Medical Officer and the government to either use this calculator or get Diabetes added to the list of extremely clinically vulnerable.
 
Well if only 26% of those who died had diabetes, that means 74% (I.e. almost three quarters) didn’t. You can get statistics to show anything you like, it doesn’t mean that having diabetes caused those people to get covid or to die. You have to speak to your employer and find out what they are doing to minimise the risk to their employees and then decide whether you are prepared to take that risk. There is never no risk at all, even if you never leave your house other people have to bring you food, post etc. My daughter is type 1 and still going to school, the school are doing everything they can to minimise the risks, and at the moment I think the risk to her mental health if she doesn’t go to school is much higher.
 
I feel the statistics around the number of people with diabetes suffering from covid as a very blunt statistic.
It does not distinguish between things like other comorbidities, weight, Hb1AC, etc.

I do not believe a very active person with well managed type 1 diabetes, no complications and not obese should be categorised extremely clinically vulnerable.

My mental health would certainly suffer if I was put into that category.
 
Only having diabetes doesn't in my view, make anyone extremely clinically vulnerable. If the person with diabetes is elderly, obese or has any additional health conditions, well it might. Remember that it covers folk from birth up to 100+ in its catchment area. Even if they happen to catch Covid, all of them won't and all of them won't even need hospitalisation. There are doctors, nurses and hospital porters, cleaners, admin staff etc far more exposed to the virus than most other people and not even 'most' of them get it. Let alone die.
 
The risk calculator,FWIW: https://qcovid.org/

Apparently I am 4.5 times more likely to be hospitalised by covid and 9 times more likely to die in comparison with someone my age who has no risk factors. Got to be honest, I really couldn't care less.

Got to die of something and I'm not in the habit of running scared from things like this. Don't get me wrong. I'd rather stay alive but if I get it, I get it. If I die, I die. That's the beauty of life. Risk everywhere. No intention of shielding.

Also, and this is purely my my own view, whilst only 51, I have had a good and full life and achieved everything I had planned as a young man. I am not old but I'm clearly no longer young either. I am horrified and mortified at the thought that this current generation of youngsters are having their lives and careers put on hold or destroyed to save people like myself, to say nothing of the enormous economic burden which has now been placed on their shoulders. This simply doesn't sit well for me.

I know this is a minority view on here but honestly, this all feels wrong to me. That's just how I feel about it personally.

Anyway, that's enough from me. Just had a ton of salted caramel Galaxy chocolate and now I need to walk it off before a hyper sets in....
 
Apparently I am 4.5 times more likely to be hospitalised by covid and 9 times more likely to die in comparison with someone my age who has no risk factors. Got to be honest, I really couldn't care less.

Got to die of something and I'm not in the habit of running scared from things like this. Don't get me wrong. I'd rather stay alive but if I get it, I get it. If I die, I die. That's the beauty of life. Risk everywhere. No intention of shielding.

Also, and this is purely my my own view, whilst only 51, I have had a good and full life and achieved everything I had planned as a young man. I am not old but I'm clearly no longer young either. I am horrified and mortified at the thought that this current generation of youngsters are having their lives and careers put on hold or destroyed to save people like myself, to say nothing of the enormous economic burden which has now been placed on their shoulders. This simply doesn't sit well for me.

I know this is a minority view on here but honestly, this all feels wrong to me. That's just how I feel about it personally.

Anyway, that's enough from me. Just had a ton of salted caramel Galaxy chocolate and now I need to walk it off before a hyper sets in....

I'd be more concerned about giving it than getting it. I think the universe could somehow stumble along without me.

Anyway, this calculator is obviously a really blunt tool. Maybe most useful for highlighting absolute rather than relative risks - eg depending on age, not very much risk.
 
Only having diabetes doesn't in my view, make anyone extremely clinically vulnerable. If the person with diabetes is elderly, obese or has any additional health conditions, well it might. Remember that it covers folk from birth up to 100+ in its catchment area. Even if they happen to catch Covid, all of them won't and all of them won't even need hospitalisation. There are doctors, nurses and hospital porters, cleaners, admin staff etc far more exposed to the virus than most other people and not even 'most' of them get it. Let alone die.
I reply to your comments, about doctors nurses, porters etc been more exposed, I am one of them as an clinical engineer at a acute NHS hospital.
 
Well I did my own QCOVID and scored 96 out of the possible 100 and I am considered clinically extremely vulnerable, but still don't consider myself quite as vulnerable as my husband who only has 50% lung capacity.
 
Well I did my own QCOVID and scored 96 out of the possible 100 and I am considered clinically extremely vulnerable, but still don't consider myself quite as vulnerable as my husband who only has 50% lung capacity.
I assume you have other comorbidities to score that high and put you in the clinically extremely vulnerable group. I did mine and I think it was around 70.
 
I found it quite encouraging that ‘just’ T1 diabetes didn’t put us on the shielding list initially.

And to pick up on what @Bruce Stephens mentioned, while the raw stats for people with T1 and risk of death sound terrifying, it’s important to remember that the biggest risk factor, but some margin, is still age. In that NHS England study by the time you got to around 44 the risk of a severe case of Covid19 if you had T1 was very similarly to the general population (so really quite small). And there were no T1 deaths with Covid younger than 25. Which is important given the 50% of T1 diagnoses in childhood.

I know T1 specialists who are very clear that we should be as careful as we can and take precautions to try to reduce our risk and exposure (hand washing, distancing etc) because we really don’t want to get it. But I don’t feel it’s necessary to fully self-isolate myself. I’m happy to still go to the shops and carry out the parts of my work that involve going to the post office etc.

But I don’t really feel that much more at risk of a ‘nasty’ Covid reaction than anyone else my age really.
 
@Steve H - a very small degree of emphysema (smoker) plus intermittent claudication so those identify as COPD and PVD on the QRISK plus I'm 70, hence the score. Death's a side effect of being born - good grief when I was little they hadn't invented a polio jab and my big sis had a scar on the bridge of her nose from scratching her measles spots, babies were dying of diptheria and all sorts you couldn't apparently prevent. I could wander a quarter of a mile down the road (without crossing any main roads) and watch them drop forging through the open big front door of the foundry, and listen to it! Was always lovely and warm outside there on a cold winter's day. I found it fascinating - all that lovely bright red colour you can see them playing about with, must be lovely and interesting working there instead of in a boring office like my dad.

Nobody had even imagined HASAWA at that stage. (the original Health and Safety at Work Act) Hence - we didn't worry about it unduly. Now they have to define every single risk in very great detail - so we respond by being scared.

There is a very fine line between being permanently scared of everything and being comfortable in your own skin. I continue to try and do the latter thanks.
 
plus I'm 70, hence the score. Death's a side effect of being born
Heard this on a radio programme once (I can't remember the actual term used now)
P1: Life isn't a medical condition!
Doctor: oh yes it is! And it's always terminal!
 
The risk calculator,FWIW: https://qcovid.org/

Forgot to say before, but this thing spits out ridiculously precise numbers - "0.0238%" etc etc. It's silly & it makes you wonder about the people who put it together (perhaps unfairly).
 
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Forgot to say before, but this thing spits out ridiculusly precise numbers - "0.0238%" etc etc. It's silly & it makes you wonder about the people who put it together (perhaps unfairly).
Worth noting there's a difference between precision and accuracy.
 
The simple fact is that the older you get, the more likely you are to die in the following year. Also, following a similar pattern, you are more likely to develop a cancer, or dementia. These are unavoidable, unfortunately, unlike COVID, but in any event the absolute risk of that being a cause of your death is tiny. The absolute risk of dying from something is, of course,100%.
 
Forgot to say before, but this thing spits out ridiculously precise numbers - "0.0238%" etc etc. It's silly & it makes you wonder about the people who put it together (perhaps unfairly).

Just due to how maths work no matter how simple the inputs you end up with wierdly precise results unless you bother to truncate them. For example my average blood sugar over the last month has been 6.09301 because I don't know how to round on google sheets and can't be bothered finding out how :D.
 
The simple fact is that the older you get, the more likely you are to die in the following year. Also, following a similar pattern, you are more likely to develop a cancer, or dementia. These are unavoidable, unfortunately, unlike COVID, but in any event the absolute risk of that being a cause of your death is tiny. The absolute risk of dying from something is, of course,100%.

I don't know, I read a warning leaflet saying that 43% of smokers die. So presumably the other 57% are immortal.
 
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