Control at any price and any age?

[Amigo]

My very elderly mum is in hospital presently and is type 2 diabetic, very well controlled and on metformin. Today I went in to help her with her meal (which staff had chosen) and it was corned beef hash with sliced potatoes and mashed potatoes with gravy followed by sweet rice pudding. A veritable carb feast!
It's clear that hospital staff don't concern themselves greatly, particularly with elderly diabetics who are not presenting with errant or erratic BG's in hospital. From discussions on here, it's clear that a lack of nutritional understanding in hospital can extend to all age groups and as patients self select, few checks are made. Hopefully it would be different if her BG's were massively out of range and causing problems.
It got me thinking really. At what point is it reasonable to intervene? Staff seem to think it's crazy trying to prevent very elderly people from indulging in treats by the time they are in their late 80's and indeed 90's. Is maintaining optimum health and depriving people at the end of their life even reasonable?

In truth I'd be reluctant now to insist my mum was deprived a dessert or a piece of cake but this meal lacked nutritional balance...e.g. no vegetables at all. She still needs the right nutrition to get better.

My mum has no mobility and has lost her sight (not diabetic related) so what argument is there for complaining about non diabetic choices? I can see both sides of the argument but part of me says people of this very advanced age are more likely to die of boredom than a custard slice!
Am I wrong in thinking this? I sense it's the prevailing attitude in residential care Homes.

 

[Redkite]

I think everyone should be offered a healthy balanced meal in hospital, regardless of age. That meal sounds like it would be red traffic-light for fat, sugar and salt! Should the "rules" of a healthy diet be relaxed for elderly people? No, because that would be like saying it's not worth bothering any more! But everyone should be free to make their own informed choice.

 

[Robin]

The thing that annoys me about this sort of food being served in hospitals and care homes, is that the excuse given is that they want to get people eating, and there seems to be a presumption that the unhealthy stuff is what people would most like to eat. Well, no, I wouldn't!

 

[mikeyB]

Sounds like they have an Irish cook. But how can a hospital in this day and age serve food like that? Where are the green veg? Or carrots, at least. Vitamins? Vital for the elderly as much as the young. That shows a shocking, criminal lack care and thoughtfulness. Send your letter to the local paper - and the hospital catering manager. Somebody has to shame them into doing better.

 

[Amigo]

Sounds like they have an Irish cook. But how can a hospital in this day and age serve food like that? Where are the green veg? Or carrots, at least. Vitamins? Vital for the elderly as much as the young. That shows a shocking, criminal lack care and thoughtfulness. Send your letter to the local paper - and the hospital catering manager. Somebody has to shame them into doing better.

There were a lot of other choices Mike but as I said, food is ordered for her and staff tend to go for food that is very soft and as a result carby.
When I was in hospital, a member of staff had to choose my meal whilst I was having a scan. I came back to a huge greasy cheese and onion pasty with potato wedges and sponge and custard! When I asked the 'girl' involved why she'd chosen those, she said it's what she would have eaten! 😱

Incidentally, they don't have cooks at all now. It's a huge hospital, the size of a small village and all the food is sent in and dished up off a hot trolley on the ward from the chosen menus patients have completed (if they're able).

 

[grovesy]

There were a lot of other choices Mike but as I said, food is ordered for her and staff tend to go for food that is very soft and as a result carby.
When I was in hospital, a member of staff had to choose my meal whilst I was having a scan. I came back to a huge greasy cheese and onion pasty with potato wedges and sponge and custard! When I asked the 'girl' involved why she'd chosen those, she said it's what she would have eaten! 😱

Incidentally, they don't have cooks at all now. It's a huge hospital, the size of a small village and all the food is sent in and dished up off a hot trolley on the ward from the chosen menus patients have completed (if they're able).

Most hospital food has been done like this for at least the last 10years.

 

[happydog]

My husband had three months in hospitals last year. In the first one the meals all came prepacked and were heated up in the microwave. They were pretty grim and nothing was diabetes friendly. In the second hospital they seemed to depend on soup and sandwiches and ice cream. In both places I ended up taking food in for him, salads, home made soups and sandwiches etc with fruit and a couple of other favourite deserts now and again. (He is not diabetic) No one seemed to take any notice of the patients who were diabetic and they got the same as everyone else. Nutrition is important at all ages and especially for the elderly. I am sorry that you have encountered this lack of concern Amigo and by all means write to the hospital and the local paper. You may wish to consider taking some food in for your mother it would be a shame to spoil her good BG control through their lack of concern. I hope that things improve and that she gets well soon. I also don't think that the occasional treat should be avoided but in moderation and taking into account what other food she has consumed. Sending you a hug {} as I know how frustrating it is 🙂

 

[DaveB]

Whilst the NHS follows the ludicrous Eat Well Guide driven by the food industry lobby, hospitals will sadly follow it. Carbs (not just sugar) are a big issue whereas the problems of fat and salt have been exaggerated.

 

[mikeyB]

I have to say from my own experience earlier this week that good food is essential. After I hadn't eaten for two days, I felt well enough to go down to the shop. I went out, tried to pull my wheelchair backwards out of the little space in the porch, I couldn't do it. There is a small 2" lip to get it over. It took three goes, and I was knackered, but did it. And I was seriously worried by that. This morning, after a full day of normal food, I pulled it over the lip without any bother. I now know how Popeye felt after his tin of Spinach.

The reason I'm recounting this tale should be obvious. If you don't give old gits like me proper nutrition in hospital, it makes a critical difference to well being and function in very short order.

( It's an electric wheelchair with two car batteries providing the power, in case you think I'm a wimp)

 

[Northerner]

I think the chief problem with eating a carb-fest at every meal at that age is not the problem of increasing risks of complications, which may take decades to appear, but if you have been well-controlled prior to hospital then high post-prandial levels might just make you feel ill, because you're really not used to it. I know personally that if my levels go into double figures I feel nauseous and headachey, and that surely can't be helpful in your recovery from whatever it is you are in there for It's all well and good having a sugary pudding that might be a brief pleasure to consume, but if it then results in you feeling rough you pay for it. The key word has to be moderation, no need to be too strict, and yes, there should be a healthy variety and range of food groups so you are getting everything you need 🙂

 

[Mini-Vicki]

This seems to be quite common unfortunately. My beloved 93 year old grandma was in hospital a few years ago, she was already going senile, and couldn't feed herself well at that point in time. She wasn't diagnosed diabetic, but had had a few high BGs on some tests.
Anyway, I went to visit her one day at dinner time, and she had been served plain pasta and mashed potatoes. Not only did it look unappetising, there was nothing nutritional in it. I asked the nurse why, and apparently that's what my grandma had 'chosen'
I know hospitals are understaffed and stupidly busy, but f nutrition was better, people would have much better recovery times. I started taking her in food after that, and helping her eat it.
I did still take her in some chocolate biscuits to have with her cup of tea, she couldn't have done without those! 😉

 

[Maz2]

I can see both sides of the argument in that older people should be able to enjoy what they like when they are in their 80s and 90s etc. However, I think with diabetes it is better to regulate what they eating. Personally, I think it is disgraceful to serve food like to diabetics in hospitals and they really should know better.

 

[Maz2]

Sorry - should read "serve food like that to diabetics"

 

[AaronH83]

When I was diagnosed I was admitted to hospital (HbA1C was 137, my GP rang me in a flap telling me to get to A&E), when I was taken up to the ward the first thing I got given was white toast slathered in butter and a steaming mug of tea. The next morning breakfast was toast and tea again, cereal, milk, or porridge. Lunch if I remember right was a roast (the most anaemic piece of beef I've ever had) and custard and peaches for pudding. My dietician came around and I asked her about it. She laughed and said she'd made so many complaints about it. Later discovered she's type 1 also, so it's nice to have a medical professional who understands exactly what I'm up against.

 

[trophywench]

One of our adult daughters was carted off by ambulance a while ago, as she'd contracted viral meningitis. There's nowt wrong with her in terms of dietary requirements and she was treated as an emergency PDQ and started to get better very quickly - only a few days but obviously they couldn't send her home!

We had constant texts 'Could we bring her some food please' - she didn't actually care what it was - just anything recognisable, that had some TASTE. She didn't care if it was supposed to be served hot and the gravy had congealed on the way. JUST anything EDIBLE - instead of plates of grey unrecognisable muck. We'd have conversations like So what was it today? Well it was supposed to be fish, but there was only black fish skin in REALLY thick batter on my plate - fat oozing out of it, looked like they'd cooked a tail to me - and lumpy light grey mash. And tapioca pudding. Etc.

I've long felt sorry for eg Indians - who not being well and therefore quite obviously probably not fancying a western diet even when hospital food was perfectly OK - and even those with no religious food convictions - had to wait for their family to arrive at visiting time, to bring them their food. I mean - when we're ill, we ALL want to eat food we can recognise, and already know we like, don't we?

 

[Amigo]

I honestly don't think health and care staff understand the diabetic nutritional need. When I was in we were only offered carbs for breakfast and diabetics could have any cereal or porridge but no sugar. Rice pudding has the 'diabetic friendly' tick next to it as long as you don't put extra sugar on it. Staff often order soft food for very elderly patients and much of it is carby as a result.
It's an issue with mass catering but it does extend to elderly care homes who, in my experience, would rarely try to prevent a diabetic from the morning biscuits and afternoon cake.

There is the additional issue that my mum's tastes and tolerance of texture has changed so she won't tolerate vegetables that are in any way solid. It's also a matter of scientific fact that the ageing palate gravitates towards sweet tastes.

However, I'm just grateful that my mum is much better and in truth, she had very little appetite anyway.

 

[Ditto]

My Mum's 82 and it's too late to change now. Today she had tripe! The vinegar goes in all the little crinkles...

When I get an appointment at the hospital my face lights up because I can go in the canteen...carbs! They have the nicest chips I've ever tasted...I was told they're McCains. 😛

 

[FergusC]

My Mum's 82 and it's too late to change now. Today she had tripe! The vinegar goes in all the little crinkles...

Personaly, can't stomah tripe, but if it is one of your favourites, the "fill yer boots".
Although hate to think what a "dog's dinner" institutional catering could make of this venerable dish😱

 

[Bloden]

when I was taken up to the ward the first thing I got given was white toast slathered in butter and a steaming mug of tea. The next morning breakfast was toast and tea again, cereal, milk, or porridge. Lunch if I remember right was a roast (the most anaemic piece of beef I've ever had) and custard and peaches for pudding.

In hozzie after dx I was fed the diabetic option right from the off: salt-free soup, a balanced main, and fruit for pud. The woman I was sharing with was T2 and had a face like a sulky 4-year-old when she saw what was on offer...I thought she was going to have a tantrum when her friend tried to get her to eat the pud: an orange!

 

[AaronH83]

In hozzie after dx I was fed the diabetic option right from the off: salt-free soup, a balanced main, and fruit for pud. The woman I was sharing with was T2 and had a face like a sulky 4-year-old when she saw what was on offer...I thought she was going to have a tantrum when her friend tried to get her to eat the pud: an orange!

I guess it's about embracing the diabetes and not letting it beat you. I did find initially I was very down (I suffer severe depression and two forms of PTSD) but as I did my research I found things I could have and enjoy. My dietician has been brilliant, says my diet is better than hers. I do still have bad days where I'll be low or high and nothing I do seems to work but there's always tomorrow.

What I have found is my endocrinologist is generally a bit too keen to drastically increase or reduce doses. When I was back last week for my review, she saw my HbA1C had gone from 137 to 37 and was considering just treating me with metformin. My nurses however are more than happy with my control and told my endo that I had a physical job, I was adjusting my doses with carb counting and that I had my head screwed on when it came to my diabetes.

What really helped I think was the fact I was unemployed when I was diagnosed. It gave me the time to sit down and do my research, find how I reacted, and test test test and test again. After diagnosis I was testing up to 12 times a day, my GP asked why I needed so many test strips and I told her I was trying to build up a picture of how I reacted during the day. Even now I test at least 8 times a day and record it all in mySugr, which I can then email off to my DSN as a PDF.