Collatoral damage

[Docb]

So you finally get the medics to take note that you think something is very wrong, you patiently wait for a neurology appointment, you eventually get tests done and prepare to wait patiently for a consultation to get results and hopefully a diagnosis. Then you get a letter simply telling you that the appointment (in April) is cancelled and that they are unable to offer an alternative appointment. No apology, no suggestion of how the results might be communicated to me, particularly if something sinister is found.

Suppose that is the ultimate POAD letter.

 

[grovesy]

So you finally get the medics to take note that you think something is very wrong, you patiently wait for a neurology appointment, you eventually get tests done and prepare to wait patiently for a consultation to get results and hopefully a diagnosis. Then you get a letter simply telling you that the appointment (in April) is cancelled and that they are unable to offer an alternative appointment. No apology, no suggestion of how the results might be communicated to me, particularly if something sinister is found.

Suppose that is the ultimate POAD letter.

What is POAD?

 

[Inka]

@grovesy POAD = p*ss off and die

 

[Docb]

Inkas got it, P**s Off And Die. Its the generic term used to describe an unhelpful communication from an organisation - the sort of thing designed to fob you off. Seemed appropriate, in a macabre sort of way, to describe my letter from the NHS.

Anybody else getting dumped? To some extent you can understand postponing resource hungry things like elective surgery but a quick note to let somebody the know the results of completed tests would not seem to be beyond the wit of man to complete without compromising the health of the nation.

 

[Robin]

Inkas got it, P**s Off And Die. Its the generic term used to describe an unhelpful communication from an organisation - the sort of thing designed to fob you off. Seemed appropriate, in a macabre sort of way, to describe my letter from the NHS.

Anybody else getting dumped? To some extent you can understand postponing resource hungry things like elective surgery but a quick note to let somebody the know the results of completed tests would not seem to be beyond the wit of man to complete without compromising the health of the nation.

That is so frustrating. Do you think your GP might get a copy of the test results?

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Really sorry to hear this @Docb

I am sure they will be in touch though, if anything needs follow up. It must be a very difficult time in the health service right now, and lots of routine stuff is getting dropped I’m sure (partly to help social distancing?)

@Robin’s suggestion of trying to get the information via the GP is a good one, if you don’t get any joy getting the results from hospital clinic.

It‘s times like this when email contact would be really handy... so that ’nothing to worry about’ results could be shared to put people’s minds at rest. I think there have always been worries about security and confidentiality though

 

[Docb]

Yes, I am already working on contingency plans. First off was to send an e-mail to the sender of the letter saying I would be quite content with an e-mail to let me know of any conclusions the consultant might have reached. Don't know if I will get a response but if I don't I will follow it up next week. Using GP is on the list but if past performance is anything to go by I am pretty sure he will simply tell me to contact the consultant directly and give me a phone number.

By way of background, the neurologist has ordered a battery of tests, the most significant of which is a test for mitochondrial disease. If that proves positive it will be no surprise because it will link everything that has gone on over the last 10 years or so, including the diabetes.

What I find so frustrating is the way blanket approaches are used to deal with things. In any other industry, you would not get away with it because you know it would harm your business.

 

[Eddy Edson]

Yes, I am already working on contingency plans. First off was to send an e-mail to the sender of the letter saying I would be quite content with an e-mail to let me know of any conclusions the consultant might have reached. Don't know if I will get a response but if I don't I will follow it up next week. Using GP is on the list but if past performance is anything to go by I am pretty sure he will simply tell me to contact the consultant directly and give me a phone number.

By way of background, the neurologist has ordered a battery of tests, the most significant of which is a test for mitochondrial disease. If that proves positive it will be no surprise because it will link everything that has gone on over the last 10 years or so, including the diabetes.

What I find so frustrating is the way blanket approaches are used to deal with things. In any other industry, you would not get away with it because you know it would harm your business.

Sucks! I wouldn't have thought a neurology consultant would be too tied up to give you a response. I'd keep badgering.

 

[grovesy]

@grovesy POAD = p*ss off and die

Oh!

 

[grovesy]

Sucks! I wouldn't have thought a neurology consultant would be too tied up to give you a response. I'd keep badgering.

If the so called Health Seceratry is believed, the Neurologist could be being retrained to do ITU work.

 

[Eddy Edson]

If the so called Health Seceratry is believed, the Neurologist could be being retrained to do ITU work.

That's a point.

 

[grovesy]

The previous one was not regarded well be medics, but this one makes him look good.

 

[Docb]

Sucks! I wouldn't have thought a neurology consultant would be too tied up to give you a response. I'd keep badgering.

You would think so Eddy but don't bank on it.

If I had had a letter saying something like.... We are suspending face to face consultaions where we can for reasons you will understand but we can see that your tests have been done and when the results have been recieved we will be in touch either by letter or e-mail to keep you up to date. We would anticipate this would be by (some date or other)... that would have been brilliant and indicative of a Health Service that lives up to its billing.

Yes I will badger, but it makes me feel as if I am in the same category as the bog roll buyers.

 

[Eddy Edson]

The previous one was not regarded well be medics, but this one makes him look good.

I think maybe there's some blame to be shared by medical/science advisors too. I'm not sure that Whitty and/or the modelling geeks at IC didn't have a role in giving some really bad advice to the UK govt; I guess this will be thrashed over in the days to come.

Here in Oz, I believe the Chief Medical Officer got the job because he looks like the doctor on a day-time soap opera (kidding, I hope).

Bruce Aylward, the WHO official who led the joint China mission in Feb and has been a key driver for WHO's "test test test" message:

“In some countries they’re not even testing them. They’re saying if you have a cough and high fever, stay at home,” says Aylward. “But the problem then is that they don’t know that they have the disease, they haven’t had it confirmed. After a couple of days people get bored, go out for a walk and go shopping and get other people infected. If you know you’re infected you’re more likely to isolate yourself.”

This is a particular problem with covid-19 because up to 80 per cent of those infected may have only mild or moderate symptoms. “If those people are all out of hospital, most of your cases are at home, but not isolated,” says Aylward. “In China, they found that didn’t work. They had to get them isolated in hospitals or dormitories or stadiums. The main goal was to keep them from getting bored.”

According to Aylward, several countries have responded well to the coronavirus outbreak. “South Korea have been pretty rigorous about testing all the suspect cases and finding all the contacts. In the last couple of days, they seem to have turned a corner.”

“Singapore has been hit with importations [of cases] again and again, and they’re jumping on them, tracing all the cases, tracing all the contacts, professionally isolating them all,” says Aylward.

But Aylward wouldn’t be drawn on the UK’s strategy, which has been criticised by some scientists. “People have different reasons for taking different measures at different times in an outbreak,” he says. “Chris [Whitty, chief medical adviser to the UK] is one of the brightest, most sensible and careful people I know. I’m not going to second-guess anybody at this time.”

WHO expert: We need more testing to beat coronavirus

The WHO’s assistant director general Bruce Aylward says effective quarantine is essential for tackling the coronavirus, but this cannot happen without extensive testing for covid-19

www.newscientist.com

 

[Eddy Edson]

You would think so Eddy but don't bank on it.

If I had had a letter saying something like.... We are suspending face to face consultaions where we can for reasons you will understand but we can see that your tests have been done and when the results have been recieved we will be in touch either by letter or e-mail to keep you up to date. We would anticipate this would be by (some date or other)... that would have been brilliant and indicative of a Health Service that lives up to its billing.

Yes I will badger, but it makes me feel as if I am in the same category as the bog roll buyers.

I understand, but you're not in the same category. Get the guy's number & call him. Remember, you're a *real* doctor; he's just one by courtesy 🙂

 

[Docb]

Nice one Eddy. Actually he does have a PhD and now styles himself "Professor". Have got his office number but it rings and rings and rings until his secretary answers and tells you to call somebody else.

 

[Eddy Edson]

Nice one Eddy. Actually he does have a PhD and now styles himself "Professor". Have got his office number but it rings and rings and rings until his secretary answers and tells you to call somebody else.

Maybe do like the kids do & try social media pressure. If he or his outfit have a twitter feed or a Facebook page, post on that.

You're a customer, dammit!

 

[Cazzablanca]

Inkas got it, P**s Off And Die. Its the generic term used to describe an unhelpful communication from an organisation - the sort of thing designed to fob you off. Seemed appropriate, in a macabre sort of way, to describe my letter from the NHS.

Anybody else getting dumped? To some extent you can understand postponing resource hungry things like elective surgery but a quick note to let somebody the know the results of completed tests would not seem to be beyond the wit of man to complete without compromising the health of the nation.

My friend was scheduled for critical heart op for just after Christmas. She has now been told it will be delayed for at least a year and that she needs to get her will in order just in case. Her and her husband are distraught. The only way she could get it done is if she has a heart attack or something now. The world is no longer the world we all know. It's impossible for us to adjust to this new reality.

 

[grovesy]

I think maybe there's some blame to be shared by medical/science advisors too. I'm not sure that Whitty and/or the modelling geeks at IC didn't have a role in giving some really bad advice to the UK govt; I guess this will be thrashed over in the days to come.

Here in Oz, I believe the Chief Medical Officer got the job because he looks like the doctor on a day-time soap opera (kidding, I hope).

Bruce Aylward, the WHO official who led the joint China mission in Feb and has been a key driver for WHO's "test test test" message:

“In some countries they’re not even testing them. They’re saying if you have a cough and high fever, stay at home,” says Aylward. “But the problem then is that they don’t know that they have the disease, they haven’t had it confirmed. After a couple of days people get bored, go out for a walk and go shopping and get other people infected. If you know you’re infected you’re more likely to isolate yourself.”

This is a particular problem with covid-19 because up to 80 per cent of those infected may have only mild or moderate symptoms. “If those people are all out of hospital, most of your cases are at home, but not isolated,” says Aylward. “In China, they found that didn’t work. They had to get them isolated in hospitals or dormitories or stadiums. The main goal was to keep them from getting bored.”

According to Aylward, several countries have responded well to the coronavirus outbreak. “South Korea have been pretty rigorous about testing all the suspect cases and finding all the contacts. In the last couple of days, they seem to have turned a corner.”

“Singapore has been hit with importations [of cases] again and again, and they’re jumping on them, tracing all the cases, tracing all the contacts, professionally isolating them all,” says Aylward.

But Aylward wouldn’t be drawn on the UK’s strategy, which has been criticised by some scientists. “People have different reasons for taking different measures at different times in an outbreak,” he says. “Chris [Whitty, chief medical adviser to the UK] is one of the brightest, most sensible and careful people I know. I’m not going to second-guess anybody at this time.”

WHO expert: We need more testing to beat coronavirus

The WHO’s assistant director general Bruce Aylward says effective quarantine is essential for tackling the coronavirus, but this cannot happen without extensive testing for covid-19

www.newscientist.com

The more I have seen of the guy despite many saying he is a good guy, he maybe good atcommunicating to fellow scientists, but to the general public I don't think so. I think the number of new members who have joined to get clarification after major announcements are testimony to that.
There is a female Dr. Harris who is with WHO , I have seen her TV number times both taking viewers calls or by interviews by journalists on the BBC, she is always clear, and only deviation she makes is to communicate new or emerging evidence. Even Dr Fauci is an excellent communicator, even contradicting Trump if necessary.