Carbs

[Karen999]

So would you say carbs are carbs . If you eat 20g of carbs in fruit say is it the same as eating 20g of bread carbs.
So if you had a full day off eating rubbish but it only came to 100g of carbs does the body respond the same as a healthy carbs day.
Oh and also I've just been told my portion sizes are to big if I think a piece of sour dough bread with mushrooms is a small lunch. What do you think?

 

[helli]

All carbs are converted to glucose but different carbs are converted at different speeds.
Slower released carbs may be easier for your body to deal with if you have insulin resistance - your body has longer to release insulin. This is what is measured by Glycemic Index.
Those of us at risk of hypos treat their hypos with fast acting carbs like fruit juice or jelly babies. On the other hand fatty food (e.g. curry or pizza or chocolate) are not good as hypo treatment because they take longer (some times they can continue to raise BG for hours after eating).
I find sourdough is slower acting than "normal" bread. This is real sourdough not the supermarket sourdough (flavoured) bread which is not proved slowly (e.g. overnight).

With regards to whether your portion sizes are too big, there is no such thing as "too b ig" - it depends upon the person and how your body can cope with the carbs. The only way to find out if your portions are too big for your body is to measure. Test before you start eating and 2 hours later. If your BG rises by no more than 2mmol/l, the portion is not an issue.
As guidance, low carb is typically though of as 130g carbs.

 

[Drummer]

So would you say carbs are carbs . If you eat 20g of carbs in fruit say is it the same as eating 20g of bread carbs.
So if you had a full day off eating rubbish but it only came to 100g of carbs does the body respond the same as a healthy carbs day.
Oh and also I've just been told my portion sizes are to big if I think a piece of sour dough bread with mushrooms is a small lunch. What do you think?

For me, yes, though I would not eat 100gm of carbs in a day - and it is difficult to define 'rubbish' except by what else is included in the foods.
I avoid high carb foods in general simply because they are high carb, so a sourdough bread just as much as a cheap supermarket loaf because putting the label 'healthy' on a foodstuff doesn't make it so.

 

[Lisa65]

I can eat a plate of meat and vegetables and only see a slow rise of maybe 2mmol. But if I eat those same vegetables made into soup, I get a faster and somewhat bigger rise.

 

[Drummer]

I can eat a plate of meat and vegetables and only see a slow rise of maybe 2mmol. But if I eat those same vegetables made into soup, I get a faster and somewhat bigger rise.

I think the same thing affected my HbA1c at the last test - I tried the slimming shakes and although I did lose some weight my HbA1c was higher than for the last 5 or 6 years after 2 months of shakes and a small meal each day.
Normally my carbs are from salad, stirfry, veges or berries, so inside cells rather than loose in a liquid.

 

[silver minion]

I think if you are watching the amount of carbs you eat then filling your plate with nutrient rich food like veg and nuts (which do contain some carbs) is better for your overall health than chips or pastries just to quote a couple of obvious examples.
You can also eat more low carb food if it's not too calorie dense so it will keep you full longer.
If I was eating no more than 130g carbs daily and had the choice of
A. Yoghurt and berries, tuna and mayo sandwich then chicken salad.
B. Very small portion of chips and a chocolate brownie
I know which option I would choose.

 

[grovesy]

I even get differnt effects at differnt days or times.

 

[pjgtech]

Personally I think carbs are carbs. So I try to reduce them all. That keeps it simple.
Yes I know that some carbs release their glucose faster/slower and some people can cope with some carbs and some can't, and carbs come in various forms, eg: solids, liquids, natural, processed, etc, etc.
So trying to only eat "good" carbs and not eat "bad" carbs, just complicates things, (for me).
I do eat carbs, I just try not to eat too many of them. Thats so much easier to stick to.
Cheers

 

[JimmyBlue]

@silver minion , let me guess option A?

I am sometimes surprised by what carbs trigger my big peaks, bean chili with kidney, ballotti and black-eyed beans for example. I also had it when I had a rather large steak much to my surprise.

I don't eat sourdough from the supermarket as it raised my BG above 8.5 with just a slice weighing 31g. I am back on the Freshwell Fat Head Dough rolls and some made using Vital Wheat Gluten and Flaxseed (Linseed) which i saw on the food forum. Both are nice but the latter is definitely more bready but still low carb.

 

[silver minion]

Personally I think carbs are carbs. So I try to reduce them all. That keeps it simple.
Yes I know that some carbs release their glucose faster/slower and some people can cope with some carbs and some can't, and carbs come in various forms, eg: solids, liquids, natural, processed, etc, etc.
So trying to only eat "good" carbs and not eat "bad" carbs, just complicates things, (for me).
I do eat carbs, I just try not to eat too many of them. Thats so much easier to stick to.
Cheers

I get what you are saying Peter. I am not against chips, etc. I just try not to eat them very often. I try to eat nutritious food as much as possible but still have treats occasionally because they taste nice.

 

[Drummer]

@JimmyBlue You might be like me, able to extract more than the listed amount of carbs from legumes.

 

[JimmyBlue]

@Drummer, I had your issue in mind when I saw my test result. I have repeated it as well. That said, I use the Holland & Barret black bean noodles and they don't have a big impact at all. Perhaps its the raw/cooked nature of the bean and not the processed type in the noodles that impacts me.

 

[Drummer]

@Drummer, I had your issue in mind when I saw my test result. I have repeated it as well. That said, I use the Holland & Barret black bean noodles and they don't have a big impact at all. Perhaps its the raw/cooked nature of the bean and not the processed type in the noodles that impacts me.

I had so many decades being told that something I ate shouldn't or couldn't possible work like that, I think I just gave up and accept that it happens in my reality......

 

[DaveB]

All carbs are carbs but as others have said the more complex ones eaten together with fat & fibre will be absorbed more slowly. For newbies staying below 130gm/day is a good start point but everyone has to find their right level.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

If trying to choose a source of carbs that you think might be better for you, I think it’s important to look at what else is in the foods in terms of vitamins, minerals, trace elements, and micronutrients. Plus proteins and fats, of course.

It’s perfectly possible to construct a really healthy and sustainable menu which contains say 130g of carbs a day. But simply eating 26 teaspoons of table sugar a day, and nothing else (also 130g of carbs) would not be healthy at all. 😛

 

[PerSpinasAdAstra]

Not all the same no. Simply put, each meal is different for each person, and the same meal eaten for breakfast, lunch or dinner may also have different effects. Long version...

Glucose - the sweetener in Lucozade, which is present in fruit. This can be absorbed directly from the stomach and intestine into the blood. It is the most rapidly-absorbed carb. It hits the bloodstream very quickly.

Fructose - a sugar found mostly in fruit but also in other foods. Fructose can be absorbed directly into the intestine. Small amounts of fructose are broken down into glucose and lactate in the intestinal wall. Very little of the fructose in a small piece of fruit will enter the bloodstream directly (this was proven quite recently). Glucose of course raises blood glucose levels while lactate is a different type of carb which requires processing elsewhere. Large amounts of fructose can overwhelm the capacity of the intestine to break it down and much of it enters the blood and ends up in the liver, where it is again turned into glucose and lactate. Some of this may be converted directly to fat in the liver. Consuming anything containing 'high-fructose corn syrup' is a bad idea for a Type 2.

Starch - found in foods like bread, potatoes, pasta and many vegetables. Starch cannot be absorbed directly from the intestine into the blood, if must first be broken down into glucose by an enzyme, a kind of biological chemical. This begins in the mouth with an enzyme in saliva, and continues in the small intestine with more enzymes. Until the enzyme touches the starch particle and splits it into glucose it cannot be absorbed into the blood.

Sucrose - table sugar. Found in many foods, typically refined from plants like sugar cane and sugar beet. Sucrose cannot be absorbed directly from the intestine into the blood. It too must be broken down with an enzyme and then becomes fructose and glucose. The glucose is absorbed and the fructose must then be broken down as described above.

In a recently-diagnosed Type 2 who still has a functioning insulin response from the pancreas the rate at which the carbs hit the blood stream in the form of glucose matters a great deal. If it enters the blood very slowly there is plenty of time for the pancreas to release enough insulin to handle it. If it hits the bloodstream quickly then the pancreas is overwhelmed and blood glucose levels may rise to very high levels. Other elements in a meal such as fat, protein and fibre have effects such as delaying digestion, blocking the enzymes from touching the starch for example, slowing down the rate at which the meal exists the stomach and enters the small intestine (known as 'gastric emptying'), and blocking the glucose and fructose from touching the wall of the intestine quickly and being absorbed.

On top of all that there is the Second Meal Phenomenon. In very many cases blood glucose will not rise as high after lunch as it might after breakfast even if eating an identical meal, and a similar though lesser effect has been observed after dinner. Roy Taylor was involved in a research study about this effect at one point (full text available to read for free as PDF via links on top-right) - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19366973/

So long as a person has some pancreas function left the rate at which carbs hit the bloodstream matters quite a bit. For me personally the starch in nuts, full of protein, fibre and fat, and the sucrose in sweets, produce very different effects even if the amount of carbs is the same. What it all adds up to is a person must test their response to specific meals to see how they get on, and to treat meals eaten for breakfast, lunch and dinner separately. If you were to consume half of your daily carbs in the form Lucozade for breakfast you would see very different results than eating the same amount of carbs in the form of a balanced meal for lunch.

 

[Ph1l]

Not all the same no. Simply put, each meal is different for each person, and the same meal eaten for breakfast, lunch or dinner may also have different effects. Long version...

Glucose - the sweetener in Lucozade, which is present in fruit. This can be absorbed directly from the stomach and intestine into the blood. It is the most rapidly-absorbed carb. It hits the bloodstream very quickly.

Fructose - a sugar found mostly in fruit but also in other foods. Fructose can be absorbed directly into the intestine. Small amounts of fructose are broken down into glucose and lactate in the intestinal wall. Very little of the fructose in a small piece of fruit will enter the bloodstream directly (this was proven quite recently). Glucose of course raises blood glucose levels while lactate is a different type of carb which requires processing elsewhere. Large amounts of fructose can overwhelm the capacity of the intestine to break it down and much of it enters the blood and ends up in the liver, where it is again turned into glucose and lactate. Some of this may be converted directly to fat in the liver. Consuming anything containing 'high-fructose corn syrup' is a bad idea for a Type 2.

Starch - found in foods like bread, potatoes, pasta and many vegetables. Starch cannot be absorbed directly from the intestine into the blood, if must first be broken down into glucose by an enzyme, a kind of biological chemical. This begins in the mouth with an enzyme in saliva, and continues in the small intestine with more enzymes. Until the enzyme touches the starch particle and splits it into glucose it cannot be absorbed into the blood.

Sucrose - table sugar. Found in many foods, typically refined from plants like sugar cane and sugar beet. Sucrose cannot be absorbed directly from the intestine into the blood. It too must be broken down with an enzyme and then becomes fructose and glucose. The glucose is absorbed and the fructose must then be broken down as described above.

In a recently-diagnosed Type 2 who still has a functioning insulin response from the pancreas the rate at which the carbs hit the blood stream in the form of glucose matters a great deal. If it enters the blood very slowly there is plenty of time for the pancreas to release enough insulin to handle it. If it hits the bloodstream quickly then the pancreas is overwhelmed and blood glucose levels may rise to very high levels. Other elements in a meal such as fat, protein and fibre have effects such as delaying digestion, blocking the enzymes from touching the starch for example, slowing down the rate at which the meal exists the stomach and enters the small intestine (known as 'gastric emptying'), and blocking the glucose and fructose from touching the wall of the intestine quickly and being absorbed.

On top of all that there is the Second Meal Phenomenon. In very many cases blood glucose will not rise as high after lunch as it might after breakfast even if eating an identical meal, and a similar though lesser effect has been observed after dinner. Roy Taylor was involved in a research study about this effect at one point (full text available to read for free as PDF via links on top-right) - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19366973/

So long as a person has some pancreas function left the rate at which carbs hit the bloodstream matters quite a bit. For me personally the starch in nuts, full of protein, fibre and fat, and the sucrose in sweets, produce very different effects even if the amount of carbs is the same. What it all adds up to is a person must test their response to specific meals to see how they get on, and to treat meals eaten for breakfast, lunch and dinner separately. If you were to consume half of your daily carbs in the form Lucozade for breakfast you would see very different results than eating the same amount of carbs in the form of a balanced meal for lunch.

Many thanks for this I’ve found it both interesting and useful