Can I see postprandial curves for 10g, 50g, 100g, 150g, etc carbs ingested?

[Delphic]

Hello

Do you know any graph that shows how the postprandial curves for blood glucose change with the volume or amount of carbs of a meal?

E.g. what will be the difference in the postprandial blood glucose curve if I eat a 30g muffin and what if I eat two 30g muffins?

I could be logical that I would expect to have double the peak blood glucose in the second case but I think this is not true.

Any idea why that happens?

It may be that the peak is the same or close, but the time to drop is longer.

If this is true, the difference is that the area under the curve is different. Can anyone explain what is area represent and how it relates with the volume of the meals?

Thanks!

 

[Amity Island]

Hello

Do you know any graph that shows how the postprandial curves for blood glucose change with the volume or amount of carbs of a meal?

E.g. what will be the difference in the postprandial blood glucose curve if I eat a 30g muffin and what if I eat two 30g muffins?

I could be logical that I would expect to have double the peak blood glucose in the second case but I think this is not true.

Any idea why that happens?

It may be that the peak is the same or close, but the time to drop is longer.

If this is true, the difference is that the area under the curve is different. Can anyone explain what is area represent and how it relates with the volume of the meals?

Thanks!

Hi,

Do you mean when taking an insulin bolus with a meal? What a rise would look like?

If you take the correct amount of insulin at the right time, there shouldn't be any difference between eating 30g or 60g.

I'm not quite sure what you are asking.

 

[Inka]

What type of diabetes do you have @Delphic ? Are you on any meds?

I’m not sure what you’re asking either. As @Amity Island says, if you’re on insulin then it shouldn’t matter. A few more details would help 🙂

 

[Eddy Edson]

I'm sure there are studies which come closer to what you're looking for, but off the top of my head I remember seeing some stuff which I think is fairly relevant in this study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2723644?resultClick=3 (Looking at using gut microbe characteristics to predict individual glycemic reponse to different meals.)

The study only involved non-diabetic people.

This chart shows how ingested carbs correlated with glycemic response amongst the individuals in the study:




So for most people the correlation was 0.6 or less; in other words, eating more carbs was only fairly weakly correlated with increased glycemic response for most people. For some some people the correlation was actually negative - weird, maybe some data glitch? Anyway, a really wide range of individual responses.

This chart shows the range of glycemic responses for meals with the same number of calories but different carb percentages:



The middle of the boxes gives the median reponse for a particular carb percentage range. You can see that as carb percentage increased from 30%-40% to 50%-60%, median glycemic response remained pretty much the same. You can also see that the glycemic responses varied hugely between different individuals.

This pic illustrates the individual variability: BG level over time after eating a bagel+cream cheese. Each colour corresponds to one specific individual, measured on two different days.

Some (non diabetic) people peaked at ~190 mg/dl = ~10.5 mmol/L. Others didn't go above 120 mg/dl = ~6.5 mmol/L.




Anyway, I don't think there's any such thing as "standard" BG/carb response curves. It depends on the individual and what they actually eat - what kinds of carbs, in coinjunction with what.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Welcome to the forum @Delphic 🙂

There was some research that I stumbled across a few years back (I *think* it might have been in Cell) which backed up what we see on the forum regularly... that glucose responses to food are highly individual - even the simplest of sugars can be slower that apparently more complex carbs. All dependent on the gut biome and nuances of the metabolism.

Having said that I found this general guide on diabetes-support.og.uk interesting, but it is only the most approximate of guides, and of course (as with GI) things change significantly when you mix things up (carbs, fats, proteins, fibre)

Food conversion to blood glucose « Diabetes Support Information Exchange

www.diabetes-support.org.uk

 

[Amity Island]

Welcome to the forum @Delphic 🙂

There was some research that I stumbled across a few years back (I *think* it might have been in Cell) which backed up what we see on the forum regularly... that glucose responses to food are highly individual - even the simplest of sugars can be slower that apparently more complex carbs. All dependent on the gut biome and nuances of the metabolism.

Having said that I found this general guide on diabetes-support.og.uk interesting, but it is only the most approximate of guides, and of course (as with GI) things change significantly when you mix things up (carbs, fats, proteins, fibre)

Food conversion to blood glucose « Diabetes Support Information Exchange

www.diabetes-support.org.uk

Hi Mike,

Thanks for posting the graph of carbs/protein/fat. Looking at it, is surely confirms that protein should in fact be factored into boluses? 50% converts to blood glucose. I thought it was just me that had issues with protein conversion. But it appears it's quite normal. What do you think?

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for posting the graph of carbs/protein/fat. Looking at it, is surely confirms that protein should in fact be factored into boluses? 50% converts to blood glucose. I thought it was just me that had issues with protein conversion. But it appears it's quite normal. What do you think?

Well I’ve never been quite sure of the source of the graph tbh. And I guess it depends on the weight of protein you are actually eating. For me this is quite low I think... and as only 50% converts it begins to get into the randomness of my general ebb and flow.

The RDA for protein recommended in the UK seems to be 0.75g per kg of bodyweight (50g ish a day for me?) so that’s equivalent to maybe 25g over the whole day... or 6g per meal if I allow some in ‘peanut’ snacks. Assuming I hit my RDA of course.

And I will quite often allow a bit of ‘change’ in my carb counts to allow for my own estimation errors so I never go gram-perfect anyway. 6g will just be soaked into my ‘ish’ factor 🙂

 

[Amity Island]

Well I’ve never been quite sure of the source of the graph tbh. And I guess it depends on the weight of protein you are actually eating. For me this is quite low I think... and as only 50% converts it begins to get into the randomness of my general ebb and flow.

The RDA for protein recommended in the UK seems to be 0.75g per kg of bodyweight (50g ish a day for me?) so that’s equivalent to maybe 25g over the whole day... or 6g per meal if I allow some in ‘peanut’ snacks. Assuming I hit my RDA of course.

And I will quite often allow a bit of ‘change’ in my carb counts to allow for my own estimation errors so I never go gram-perfect anyway. 6g will just be soaked into my ‘ish’ factor 🙂

Thanks Mike.

So...for example a 16oz steak / 450g beef.

Say roughly a quarter of meat is protein.

and 50% of protein is converted into glucose

450g x 0.25 = 112.5g of protein of which 50% is converted = 56g

That's a considerable amount of carbs to bolus for about 4 hours later.

Can you give any experience of how you would manage a steak for example?

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Can you give any experience of how you would manage a steak for example?

Haha! I think we have very different food shops 😛

Plus an example like that is complicated by the fact that I would only ever eat that as part of a big celebration meal. With a (wildly estimated) portion of chips. So my bolus would be based more on gut instinct and ‘adding a third’ than on a scrupulously estimated/counted calculation.

A bit like my SWAG bolus technique for takeaways.

Not what I would recommend to others... but it’s what I’ve found works OK for me most of the time 🙂

 

[Amity Island]

Haha! I think we have very different food shops 😛

Plus an example like that is complicated by the fact that I would only ever eat that as part of a big celebration meal. With a (wildly estimated) portion of chips. So my bolus would be based more on gut instinct and ‘adding a third’ than on a scrupulously estimated/counted calculation.

A bit like my SWAG bolus technique for takeaways.

Not what I would recommend to others... but it’s what I’ve found works OK for me most of the time 🙂

Mike,

I had to give myself a good 5 mins to contain my laughter before I replied to your post! You got the impression that I eat steaks (who wouldn't with the example I gave lol). Truth is I've never bought a steak in my life! Lol it was just something meaty to use as an example.

I know what you mean, steak is often served with chips or potatoes etc. So not straight forward, as in most examples.

I'll have a read of your SWAG bolus too.

Thanks.