Can ask to go back to Libre 1 as Libre 2 just not stable enough for me

[sololite]

14 days ago I had two libre 2 sensors fail in succession after putting on. Abbott said they were probably part of a bad batch and sent replacements. It didn't smell right to me but what could I do. I put a third one and started it from the reader rather than phone and it's worked fine for the last 14 days. This morning I put a new one on and started it from phone and am getting the same error messages as before.

My question is can I revert to prescriptions for the old Libre and will that run in parallel with Libre 2 or will we only get Libre 2 once the old stocks have been used up?

 

[DaveB]

Are you sure it isn't the phone that's the problem?

 

[helli]

My question is can I revert to prescriptions for the old Libre and will that run in parallel with Libre 2 or will we only get Libre 2 once the old stocks have been used up?

There is nothing stopping you from asking. I suspect Libre 1 will be discontinued at some point, especially as the Libre 3 is on the way. But, until then, you should be able to revert to Libre 1.
However, your DSN may want you to persevere with Libre 2 due to the alarms.

Are you technically minded? I ask because I have experienced no problems with my Libre 2s high I have been using for a year now. However, I only use the LibreLink app to start my sensors. I then use xDrip . It may be coincidence but there are other advantages of xDrip such as being able to calibrate and not needing to scan. There is xDrip+ for Android nd xDrip4iOS for Apple.
These are unofficial apps that are not available on the play stores. I use xDrip+ which I downloaded from GitHub.

 

[sololite]

Are you sure it isn't the phone that's the problem?

Hi Dave , I suspect the phone/app interaction but Abbot keep saying its a succession of faulty sensors. I never had a single failure in prev 2 years using Libre 1 although did switch from iPhone to Samsung 18 months ago. I just got off the phone from Abbott who say sensor is faulty and are sending another. I've lost confidence in the whole setup and will revert to using the reader instead of the phone. Not the end of the world but a shame.

There is nothing stopping you from asking. I suspect Libre 1 will be discontinued at some point, especially as the Libre 3 is on the way. But, until then, you should be able to revert to Libre 1.
However, your DSN may want you to persevere with Libre 2 due to the alarms.

Are you technically minded? I ask because I have experienced no problems with my Libre 2s high I have been using for a year now. However, I only use the LibreLink app to start my sensors. I then use xDrip . It may be coincidence but there are other advantages of xDrip such as being able to calibrate and not needing to scan. There is xDrip+ for Android nd xDrip4iOS for Apple.
These are unofficial apps that are not available on the play stores. I use xDrip+ which I downloaded from GitHub.

Thanks Helli. I am quite techie but phone software was never my thing. I am away at the moment but will try a new sensor with the reader when I get back and if that fails revert to libre 1.

 

[rebrascora]

I have just opted to remain with the original Libre 1 model rather than upgrade to Libre 2. My consultant agreed the upgrade last June but it had not so far materialized on my prescription. I have read numerous threads here from people having problems with the Mark 2 model, who didn't have problems with the original which works really great for me (I am happy to bolus and correct from it) and I don't need the alarms as I have good hypo awareness, so when I had my phone appointment last month with the consultant I asked to remain on the Libre 1 and he was fine with that. I think there are probably a few people who would benefit from going back to Libre 1 but are unsure if it is an option. @rayray119 I think you might benefit from Libre 1 as it does seem to be more reliable.... and since you are being pushed to use Libre again when I know you have lost confidence in it, you might want to suggest that to your DSN as a compromise.

 

[Robin]

I’ve been using the Libre 2 for a while now, and it’s worked well for me (in terms of no failures so far) but I had one remaining Libre 1 left from when I self funded, that I'd kept back in case I had a failure and had to send a sensor back, so I wouldn’t have a gap. It was getting close to its use by date, so I decided to put it on. I’ve been amazed the last two days, just how much I'd got used to the Libre 2 algorithm, which I never feel works well for me. I’ve been used to seeing upward (or downward) arrows and a preposterously high or low reading, and thinking, ‘I’ll take that with a pinch of salt' and finding a while later that it’s never materialised onto the graph. I much prefer the original Libre ‘tell it like it is, even if it’s 15 mins behind' approach. But I do appreciate the alarms on the Libre 2 when I’m exercising and likely to drop.

 

[nonethewiser]

Are you sure it isn't the phone that's the problem?

Would suggest same, worth uninstalling app then download it again to see if that works.

So far not had any issues with libre 2, no way could I go back to 1 version as alarms are so useful.

 

[rebrascora]

J

I’ve been using the Libre 2 for a while now, and it’s worked well for me (in terms of no failures so far) but I had one remaining Libre 1 left from when I self funded, that I'd kept back in case I had a failure and had to send a sensor back, so I wouldn’t have a gap. It was getting close to its use by date, so I decided to put it on. I’ve been amazed the last two days, just how much I'd got used to the Libre 2 algorithm, which I never feel works well for me. I’ve been used to seeing upward (or downward) arrows and a preposterously high or low reading, and thinking, ‘I’ll take that with a pinch of salt' and finding a while later that it’s never materialised onto the graph. I much prefer the original Libre ‘tell it like it is, even if it’s 15 mins behind' approach. But I do appreciate the alarms on the Libre 2 when I’m exercising and likely to drop.

That is really interesting Robin and is something which I think was unnerving @rayray119 about the Libre 2

Following a low carb way of eating I have much less variability so I rarely have big swings in BG, which would cause the algorithm to affect me like that, but my last Libre 1 sensor did have a couple of occasions when it performed as you described and over predicted rises and then settled to a lower number and I have not seen that happen before, so I am wondering if they have been tampering with the Libre 1 algorithm.

 

[Proud to be erratic]

Would suggest same, worth uninstalling app then download it again to see if that works.

I'm pretty sure that uninstalling and reinstalling LibreLink on your phone will clear all existing data and your reports will start from a new day one. But, if you are already using the LibreView web data download, that does not get lost. So register and set up LibreView on t'internet, before uninstalling.

So far not had any issues with libre 2, no way could I go back to 1 version as alarms are so useful.

Some Bluetooth functions from other apps interfere with LibreLink. Bluetooth is used to send alarms; NFC is used for the flash scanning. As a a trial or precaution:
reboot your phone;
do a Device Maintenance, with optimisation, clean memory etc;
as a final gesture to clearing your phone from anything lurking and interfering go into:
settings, apps, tick the 3 dots top right and select Show system apps;
scroll through the list of apps to Bluetooth, select Storage and CLEAR CACHE, back one step then FORCE STOP, (force stop will not cause any change to your overall Bluetooth status which will reopen immediately, but in a fully 'cleaned' state);
go back into the list of apps scroll to LibreLink, enter and select CLEAR CACHE (NOT Clear Data!); back one step, FORCE STOP (this will temporarily stop LibreLink);

Next adjust your settings so that only LibreLink has access to continuous bluetooth and temporarily deny all other apps access to Bluetooth. Once you are happy you have regained a stable sensor link, progressively allow Bluetooth to other apps; one at a time with a long gap (days, rather than hrs) in between. In practice many apps seem to want Bluetooth access when not actually needed; wireless headphones are the immediate exception I can think of, but there may be others.

You have now done about as much as is reasonably possible to clean out anything that might have been interfering. It takes longer to type than to actually do!!!

Reopen your LibreLink app and scan to get it fully interfacing again; might take a few seconds to be normal.

Hope this helps.

 

[Robin]

J

That is really interesting Robin and is something which I think was unnerving @rayray119 about the Libre 2

Following a low carb way of eating I have much less variability so I rarely have big swings in BG, which would cause the algorithm to affect me like that, but my last Libre 1 sensor did have a couple of occasions when it performed as you described and over predicted rises and then settled to a lower number and I have not seen that happen before, so I am wondering if they have been tampering with the Libre 1 algorithm.

I’m sure I read somewhere a while ago that they had meddled with the Libre algorithm, but I can’t remember where. Now I’ve got used to the Libre 2 I prefer it, because if I'm gardening (yesterday I was swinging the long handled loppers above my head which always makes my BG drop like a stone) it’ll warn me in plenty of time that I'm plummeting, and I can eat something and carry on, instead of waiting til I have the hypo and having to stop and treat. (OK, ideally, I’d break off and eat something anyway, but if I've got the bit between my teeth over a stubborn bit of pruning, I tend not to stop til it’s too late).

 

[rebrascora]

I’m sure I read somewhere a while ago that they had meddled with the Libre algorithm, but I can’t remember where. Now I’ve got used to the Libre 2 I prefer it, because if I'm gardening (yesterday I was swinging the long handled loppers above my head which always makes my BG drop like a stone) it’ll warn me in plenty of time that I'm plummeting, and I can eat something and carry on, instead of waiting til I have the hypo and having to stop and treat. (OK, ideally, I’d break off and eat something anyway, but if I've got the bit between my teeth over a stubborn bit of pruning, I tend not to stop til it’s too late).

I'm quite lucky in that even if I hypo I can usually just chew on a JB and carry on with whatever I am doing, usually mucking out but yes, hedge cutting/pruning are trigger activities too but I am also pretty good at catching them early which helps.
I do wonder if relying on the technology to warn you will lead to people being less self aware, just because they don't have to be. I am usually half subconsciously assessing my peripheral vision regularly when I am doing something which might cause a hypo as that is one of my more common early signs.

 

[helli]

I’m sure I read somewhere a while ago that they had meddled with the Libre algorithm

As I understand, they made a change to the algorithm to take into consideration the 15 minute delay between interstitial fluid readings and blood sugar readings.
The algorithm extrapolates the current trend to “predict“ the current reading.
This is good providing the current trend continues but can make a correction (from a high or low) appear to take longer to take effect.

 

[Lilly]

The "improvements of libre2" over libre 1 most likely have nothing to do with the Bg sensor; and are relate to the addition of bluetooth technology whilst still retaining the NFC (Near Field Communication) ability.
A succession of read errors is quite frequent with the message to come mack in 10 minutes - that error may be more to do with the state of the interstitial fluid in your arm - rather than a poor sensor or a blocked capilliary.

As said above starting the sensor with the reader is best and has the bonus of being also readable with the phone. and the alarms over bluetooth to the reader work just fine, and with 'vibration' on it rattles to wake you if on hard surface.

 

[Robin]

A succession of read errors is quite frequent with the message to come mack in 10 minutes - that error may be more to do with the state of the interstitial fluid in your arm - rather than a poor sensor or a blocked capilliary.

I always thought the ten minute thing was when you’d got rapidly changing blood glucose, and it confused the algorithm. Mine always seem to happen if I’m rising fast and have just done a correction dose, or if I'm hypo and I’ve just treated it. Algorithm is expecting the trend to continue in the same direction, but it then gets a real-time reading that shows it going the other way so it won’t make a prediction until it gets another real time reading.

 

[rayray119]

J

That is really interesting Robin and is something which I think was unnerving @rayray119 about the Libre 2

Following a low carb way of eating I have much less variability so I rarely have big swings in BG, which would cause the algorithm to affect me like that, but my last Libre 1 sensor did have a couple of occasions when it performed as you described and over predicted rises and then settled to a lower number and I have not seen that happen before, so I am wondering if they have been tampering with the Libre 1 algorithm.

a big problem was them stopping working consunllty(as well as other problems sometimes) i can deal with one or two fails because its technology but not all the time.

 

[sololite]

I have just opted to remain with the original Libre 1 model rather than upgrade to Libre 2. My consultant agreed the upgrade last June but it had not so far materialized on my prescription. I have read numerous threads here from people having problems with the Mark 2 model, who didn't have problems with the original which works really great for me (I am happy to bolus and correct from it) and I don't need the alarms as I have good hypo awareness, so when I had my phone appointment last month with the consultant I asked to remain on the Libre 1 and he was fine with that. I think there are probably a few people who would benefit from going back to Libre 1 but are unsure if it is an option. @rayray119 I think you might benefit from Libre 1 as it does seem to be more reliable.... and since you are being pushed to use Libre again when I know you have lost confidence in it, you might want to suggest that to your DSN as a compromise.

Thank you for your suggestions.

 

[sololite]

Would suggest same, worth uninstalling app then download it again to see if that works.

So far not had any issues with libre 2, no way could I go back to 1 version as alarms are so useful.

Thanks . Abbott got me to clear the cache and switch it on and off but by then the sensor was toast

 

[Proud to be erratic]

I'm pretty sure that uninstalling and reinstalling LibreLink on your phone will clear all existing data and your reports will start from a new day one. But, if you are already using the LibreView web data download, that does not get lost. So register and set up LibreView on t'internet, before uninstalling.

Some Bluetooth functions from other apps interfere with LibreLink. Bluetooth is used to send alarms; NFC is used for the flash scanning. As a a trial or precaution:
reboot your phone;
do a Device Maintenance, with optimisation, clean memory etc;
as a final gesture to clearing your phone from anything lurking and interfering go into:
settings, apps, tick the 3 dots top right and select Show system apps;
scroll through the list of apps to Bluetooth, select Storage and CLEAR CACHE, back one step then FORCE STOP, (force stop will not cause any change to your overall Bluetooth status which will reopen immediately, but in a fully 'cleaned' state);
go back into the list of apps scroll to LibreLink, enter and select CLEAR CACHE (NOT Clear Data!); back one step, FORCE STOP (this will temporarily stop LibreLink);

Next adjust your settings so that only LibreLink has access to continuous bluetooth and temporarily deny all other apps access to Bluetooth. Once you are happy you have regained a stable sensor link, progressively allow Bluetooth to other apps; one at a time with a long gap (days, rather than hrs) in between. In practice many apps seem to want Bluetooth access when not actually needed; wireless headphones are the immediate exception I can think of, but there may be others.

You have now done about as much as is reasonably possible to clean out anything that might have been interfering. It takes longer to type than to actually do!!!

Reopen your LibreLink app and scan to get it fully interfacing again; might take a few seconds to be normal.

Hope this helps.

@sololite I posted this earlier incorrectly to nonethewiser, where I meant it to be seen by you.
Notwithstanding that Abbott got you to clear the cache, was that for LibreLink or your phone in entirety? Bits of erroneous data get trapped in 'corners' and if that is causing your difficulty you may find it worth following the steps above, ideally shortly before activating your next sensor, thus start on a clean page 'so to speak'.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Hope the switch back to Libre 1 works well @sololite

Libre1 and Libre2 were always going to work side by side, but as @helli has said, this may change as Libre 3 rolls out more widely.

For the meantime you should have no problem switching back as far as I know.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

As I understand, they made a change to the algorithm to take into consideration the 15 minute delay between interstitial fluid readings and blood sugar readings.
The algorithm extrapolates the current trend to “predict“ the current reading.
This is good providing the current trend continues but can make a correction (from a high or low) appear to take longer to take effect.

Libre 1‘s algorithm also attempted to close that interstitial fluid gap (I think they were aiming for 5 minutes), and has the same potential to show spot readings outside of the trace.

Libre 2 is a new/updated algorithm though. Which I think was intended to primarily improve accuracy.

It’s a while since I have been invited to meet with the folks at Abbott though.