Binge carbing?

[Greymouser]

Since I lost quite a lot of weight soon after diagnosis in 2017, I gradually pushed my limits, with frequent BG testing, to see how many carbs I could now eat. I was surprised to find that my tolerance for carbs had improved, with the weight loss, which was good. 🙂

Which led me to the conclusion that I could then start to have a treat night again, which has now become a habit, a Friday night habit!

All good and lucky for me that my periodic HbA1c, has remained in a normal range of the mid 30, since. However this last Friday I started to have a little guilt trip and did a rough working out of how many grammes of carbs I had that day. It was only a rough guestimate, but certainly I will have had over 200g of carbohydrates that day. ( Maybe a lot more than 200... 😳 ) With quite a lot wine added into the mix too.

Which left me wondering about how much damage this was doing me, if any, partly prompted by comments elsewhere on this forum. I mean I am aware that Binge eating in general is bad for you, as is binge drinking of alcohol. I drink too much, but only one night a week of that too. 😳

So is it possible for a type 2 with good HbA1c results constantly, ( so far, ) to have a treat night? Or is it a very bad idea? I realise it would be much harder for most Type 1's, but just how much of a risk is it?

Whatever else, I intend to try and lose some more weight, because I figure another 8KG or so would do me good, if gone. 🙂

 

[Eddy Edson]

Since getting my D tamed via weight loss, I can eat 200g of carbs per day & keep within non-diabetic BG ranges. Avg is somewhere around 150g-225g.

There's nothing inherently wrong with carbs and it's not the case that they have more of an impact on weight than other nutrients except in the very short term.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I think it’s a very individual question.

Some people find that choosing to have occasional treats really helps them stick to the way of eating that best manages their diabetes the rest of the time. Others find they never have cravings for other foods, and still others might feel that any lapses would ‘open the floodgates’ or be the beginning of ‘carb creep’.

I suppose in part it’s whether you see your BG-friendly menu as ‘always having to choose not to eat x’, or just a slightly changed selection of foods and not missing any of the things that cause unwanted BG upheaval.

Personally I find occasional treats really helpful. Partly because my diabetes often reminds me that there are no guarantees, and sometimes tried and tested BG-friendly choices cause much more chaos than the treats (depending on whether I balance the doses correctly for each).

As a T1 I have learned to accept a degree of BG instability, and recognise that the ‘general picture’ is more important than a few wobbles here and there.

Hope you enjoy your treats, and just keep an eye on your BGs to see whether things are drifting or becoming more chaotic.

 

[bakebeans]

I was wondering the same thing. could I tolerate carbs better now I’ve lost weight, I think the answer is yes I don’t test as much now as I did to start with and I still try to eat low carb at home but when your out it’s not always that easy. Last week I ate a large McDonald’s meal which I think was roughly 110g of carbs according to their website (wasn’t the same burger but I went for one similar) and 2 hours after eating it my bg was 8.5 or around that can’t remember exactly. I tested again about an hour and a half later as wondered if it had shot up after (rough time as was out) and if dropped back to 5.somthing. I was happy with that. Doesn’t mean I’m going to eat burger and chips constantly just means if the kids want one I’ll have one also instead of watching them and drooling at everyone walking past with a tray of food!
Everyone’s different my last HbA1c came in at 38 after losing nearly 3 stone I’m now at 3.5 stone and want to be at a 4 stone loss by Xmas. My next blood test is February/March so will find out then how I’m doing.

 

[Greymouser]

@bakedbeans I went cold turkey, as it were, after diagnosis and lost quite a lot of weight quickly, as well as cutting some bad food out completely, which I have not missed at all since, found I could manage an odd treat night and still never have my BG, self monitored, not go into double figures, which was and is good, I am lucky. However after some of the comments read on this here forum, from people who could almost be called fascist carb police, I was feeling guilty, left wondering if it does in fact cause damage, much in the same way as binge drinking does. ( According to health professionals. ) No comments have been nasty, just mildly disproving, which can have a negative effect, even if unintended.

In fact like Mike above says, I find the odd blowout helps keep me sane, the rest of the time I keep it low, below 150g certainly, usually below 100g. I would say it is harder in a lot of ways for a type 1, but many of them have a more pragmatic approach to carbs, which I know I lack. I would say that can be a negative side of this forum, people can be quite harsh, myself included, about other people bad ways, or at least as they are perceived. It is obvious, ( I hope, ) particularly for type 2's, to realise they have to lose weight, make changes, but some people struggle with this and others seem to forget sometimes that everyone is indeed different, everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. 🙂

I assume so far the consensus is that the potential benefits outweigh the potential negatives? It would be better if I could more easily access the endocrinologist I met after diagnosis, who was very nice and helpful, but it seems that is easier said than done, without good cause. Sensible I suppose considering a consultants valuable time. 🙄

 

[bakebeans]

Greymouser I think youve hit the nail on the head about the comments. As wonderful as everyone here is and helpful with their advice I get the feeling that if my opinion on carbs is different it’s frowned upon with a few people so very often I don’t bother.

I did like you and cut out almost everything at the start every meal was a panic because I didn’t know if I was doing right from wrong so I focused on weight and exercise and when my HbA1c was 38 I was over the moon. My diabetes nurse said to stop being so hard on myself life is for living, if I want chips just have a few or a burger in a bun ask for extra salad instead of chips (except for last week when I had both ☺️) keep the weight off and there’s no reason for the diabetes to show up again. I’ve found now if a huge portion of food is put infront of me I can’t eat it. I’m really lucky that I’m able to make these changes and be happy with them because I know lots of people can’t. I don’t think the odd blow out does any harm if it helps keep you on track for the next week then go for it. You’ve got your meter to tell you if you’ve over done it or surprise yourself with how well you tolerate the food

 

[Greymouser]

At least it's not just me then... 🙄

 

[SueEK]

At least it's not just me then... 🙄

It’s definitely not just you, some people have a willpower of iron but sadly most of us don’t. I didn’t need to lose weight but did, therefore felt very limited on what I could reintroduce especially as after getting good bg results I was allowed to stop Metformin. Sadly however my levels soon started to rise and am now back on two a day. I don’t test as often as I did but I do when I treat myself. The foods that I have really missed I do now have but not very often and in smaller portions. Some things I have managed to cut out completely and don’t miss them such as crisps, can’t believe I’m saying that, but a baked potato or cream crackers with dairylea cheese still have to be on my menu but only about once a week and just a few.
I truly don’t believe anybody on the site means to be unkind or give condemnation in any way as we all know how difficult it is but perhaps that is the problem with texting, sometimes it comes over in a vane that is unintended.
Sounds to me like you are doing very well and as long as you are keeping an eye on your own levels then I’m sure you will adapt things should you feel you need to. Take care. Sue x

 

[Eddy Edson]

As wonderful as everyone here is and helpful with their advice I get the feeling that if my opinion on carbs is different it’s frowned upon with a few people so very often I don’t bother.

It's the classic Internet echo-chamber dynamic. Most people don't want to argue and recognise that arguing is off-putting for most. A vocal group without these inhibitions and usually with zero qualifications grabs all the bandwidth. Many arriving newbies naturally get the impression that this group's opinions are the agreed consensus and adopts them, passing them on to newer newbies. Many other people with different opinions can't be bothered anymore and go somewhere else. Ditto for silent lurkers, generally 90%+ of message board readers. The board ends up as an echo-chamber wasteland with the same small group people agreeing with each other.

This place isn't that bad yet but I could see it happening, the way I've seen it happen many many times since I was first on USENET back in the 1980's. Sad if it does.

The things to remember are that there is often an inverse relationship between a person's frequency of posting and their clue; that nobody here has any qualificatons to offer a judgement on what you do; and that just because a lot of vocal messages offer the same opinion, it doesn't make that opinion correct or necessarily reflect the consensus of everybody using the board.

Also, if you want to really learn about a subject, message boards by themselves are usually pretty bad places to do it. You need to read expert reviews/guidelines etc, which are highly accessible these days, and do your own research.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I think all anyone here can do is offer their own experience. People here are posting to try to help. Some have come after receiving official advice from HCPs on diet and food which proved to be a bit of a disaster for them. So I guess it’s only natural that their suggestions include elements of ‘don’t worry about what you’ve been told... you have to work your diet out for yourself with a BG meter’? I don’t think that means that anyone is better informed or more poorly informed - we are all just sharing what works for us.

In the majority I find that this forum is a pretty broad church, with a general inclination to moderate carb intake for improved glucose outcomes. Quite how much moderation or limitation of carbs that involves varies greatly from person to person.

I’m sorry that you have felt discouraged from expressing your own approaches @Greymouser and @Eddy Edson, I would really encourage you to share what works for you so that new members get an accurate range of the forum’s experience. It’s what makes this place what it is 🙂

 

[Ditto]

I think a 'normal' person would be allowed a treat. When they offered me the bariatric surgery they told me to go home and eat normally. I've never eaten normally in my life, wouldn't know what that was and couldn't do it. Normal people would have couple of digestives maybe with their afternoon cuppa. If I can't have the whole packet then I don't want any. Actually I wouldn't thank you for a biscuit, but chips or potatoes of any kind, or bread or spaghetti, I want the lot! I want it till I could burst. Sheer greed. I have killed myself with binge eating. It's very bad for you. Who knew?

It's like that old thing though of who did you ever see pigging on a chop? Or an orange? It's just the bad stuff we pig out on. I'm a full on food addict and always was. I was fat before it was fashionable. I've never been thin, even as a child I was a bit chunky. I remember them putting a loop on a skirt so I could fasten it up! Back then though it was always potatoes with an evening meal so I'm not surprised. We lived a lot on homemade chips, I know for a fact coz it was me had to make them. In lard. 😱 Come to think of it, I like old-fashioned food, I could just eat a slice of toast and dripping.

Ergo if you are 'normal' feel free to have a treat, if you are not normal and that's definitely me, then steer clear. You can't afford to let your guard down. One Jersey = the bag full of Jerseys. No happy medium. My Mum said I'm just being silly. I was quite hurt. 😛 Mum's very normal, that's how she got to be 85. No liver trouble for her and she really used to pack it away. She was greedy with the drink and normal with the food. She says I can't drink all this water when I try to get her to drink more. I say pretend it's half a bitter.

With regards to adverse comments on the board I think it's that some people have found the ideal way, for them, to control their condition and they want to share that good news with everybody else and can't understand when people go their own merry, but possibly daft, way. Unless it's like me, I want to whup people upside the head when they don't do as I say. It's all YMMV like it says in that book, your mileage may vary, we should maybe put that at the end of every post.

 

[Greymouser]

I am sorry but I have been misunderstood as to the motive behind this thread.

I was in no way trying to have a go at the attitude of some of the members, that was just an aside, it was genuinely about the health risks surrounding a treat night/day. I think Ditto puts it well, very well, YMMV. ( Oh, and CHIPS! 😛😉 ) There are some here who are very judgemental, me included, ( especially aimed at myself! ) however this forum is one of the best I have found on the internet, unfailingly helpful, useful and filled with nice people, but the fact that some can come across as rather harsh can be off putting. Which is why I spent a long time away from here. I only came back for selfish reasons, I was afraid and needed help. 😳 You are right Eddy so many forums just become echo chambers, but this one is not one yet and yes @everydayupsanddown ( how do I link someone in a post like you? ) I am trying to give my thoughts, wherever I feel they can be helpful. 🙂

I asked about binge treating specifically, because as Ditto says, binge eating is bad for you, obviously, but what about a day of going a bit mad? I am keeping the carb count below 100 grammes most days, my HbA1c is well under control, I very rarely get a BG above 7, let alone 8, so assumed that a treat day was a good thing, certainly for the mental benefits. However someone here as good as said I was mad for trying high carb, in an unrelated matter and it went to heart. I am absolutely certain that their intention was nothing but good, but the comment along with my own self doubt, made me think about 'stuff.'

I remember a conversation with a GP years ago, about my alcohol intake. He asked, I said I kept within the advised limits, but had it on one night. The GP described me as a binge drinker and basically said I was doomed! Decades later, here I am. 🙄 The thing is that I guess it stuck with me, so wondered if the same sort of thing applied to food. Just how high is my BG allowed to go as a one off each week? I would stress now if it got into double figures, which itself probably came from my GP, when he told me I was lucky with diagnosis, as otherwise I probably would have found out I was diabetic, when I went blind! That sort of motivates you!

I suppose I am in a way my own worst enemy, as I can be a little obsessive about some things and need to relax more. 🙄

YMMV.

 

[Sally W]

I am sorry but I have been misunderstood as to the motive behind this thread.

I was in no way trying to have a go at the attitude of some of the members, that was just an aside, it was genuinely about the health risks surrounding a treat night/day. I think Ditto puts it well, very well, YMMV. ( Oh, and CHIPS! 😛😉 ) There are some here who are very judgemental, me included, ( especially aimed at myself! ) however this forum is one of the best I have found on the internet, unfailingly helpful, useful and filled with nice people, but the fact that some can come across as rather harsh can be off putting. Which is why I spent a long time away from here. I only came back for selfish reasons, I was afraid and needed help. 😳 You are right Eddy so many forums just become echo chambers, but this one is not one yet and yes @everydayupsanddown ( how do I link someone in a post like you? ) I am trying to give my thoughts, wherever I feel they can be helpful. 🙂

I asked about binge treating specifically, because as Ditto says, binge eating is bad for you, obviously, but what about a day of going a bit mad? I am keeping the carb count below 100 grammes most days, my HbA1c is well under control, I very rarely get a BG above 7, let alone 8, so assumed that a treat day was a good thing, certainly for the mental benefits. However someone here as good as said I was mad for trying high carb, in an unrelated matter and it went to heart. I am absolutely certain that their intention was nothing but good, but the comment along with my own self doubt, made me think about 'stuff.'

I remember a conversation with a GP years ago, about my alcohol intake. He asked, I said I kept within the advised limits, but had it on one night. The GP described me as a binge drinker and basically said I was doomed! Decades later, here I am. 🙄 The thing is that I guess it stuck with me, so wondered if the same sort of thing applied to food. Just how high is my BG allowed to go as a one off each week? I would stress now if it got into double figures, which itself probably came from my GP, when he told me I was lucky with diagnosis, as otherwise I probably would have found out I was diabetic, when I went blind! That sort of motivates you!

I suppose I am in a way my own worst enemy, as I can be a little obsessive about some things and need to relax more. 🙄

YMMV.

So glad you posted I’ve felt the same many times & taken time off too. For what it’s worth I have treats & plan them around healthy food most of the time. My current HBAIC is 39 so I’m happy with that. Thanks for sharing