Advice sought

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Chappy1234

New Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
Hi all,

Apologies if this is not an appropriate place to post this; if so, I hope you will forgive me as this is my first posting.

By way of background I inject insulin four times per day and carry out regular blood tests, I also have twice-yearly hospital check-ups.

I work as a civil servant in a busy office environment.

Some time ago I returned from lunch to find two of my colleagues criticising my work. Unfortunately for me this coincided with an episode of low blood sugar; 3.5mmol. As a result, I overreacted and spoke in a less than professional manner to my colleagues.

This has lead to me being disciplined by the management in my department and being issued with an oral warning (in writing). This means that if there are any other episodes of unprofessional behaviour in the next six months I might be fired.

At the disciplinary hearing I presented evidence which included a photograph of my One Touch Ultra 2 meter showing my blood sugar reading at the time the incident took place and text cut-and-paste from various diabetes web sites showing the symptoms of hypos.

This all counted for nothing and I was still issued with a warning.

I appreciate this is not the place for legal advice, but I was just wondering if you had any opinion on the above circumstances. Is it right for someone who is suffering from low blood sugar to be disciplined for behaviour they were not responsible for?
 
Welcome to the forum Chappy.

I think the best place to seek employment advice is likely to be a union, assuming you are a member. I could only speculate, and that wouldn't help you.

There are members with human resources experience who may be along later to help.
 
Hello...

Are you a member of the PCS union? If not, join now as they can offer some advice & protection. Even now go & see your rep. If you are a member, did you take a rep into the hearing with you? (you are entitled to this).

The other thing is (so I'm told), it has to be exactly the same 'offence' repeated with the six months as otherwise any discip issue is a seperate one & after the 6 months the clock restarts...they need verbal plus 2 written warnings on exactly the same issue. There is apparently also an issue of provocation, as your colleagues are not entitled to tackle you directly re your performace - have they been pulled up on this at all?

By the way have you declared your diabetes & are they making suitable allowances iaw civil service disability policy? (ps go & check prg's).

I would also suggest a letter on your behalf from a medical professional such as you DSN or preferably consultant confirming what your meter picture represented & the consequences / symptoms (ie confusion, distress etc.)

I really think you need the union on this, as all you can do is redress your manager on grounds of not accounting for your disability.

Best of luck, don't let the b*****s grind you down! 🙂
 
Sounds a bit OTT on both sides really on the face of it - for a very first offence, frankly I'd have expected my supervisor to have words with me with the upshot being don't do it again cos next time I'll have to invoke the Disciplinary Procedure. Or is that the Disciplinary Procedure? - in other words no second chances at all?

Plus (mine was a her) I'd expect her to say, is there anything you can usefully do about that Jen, cos I'm sure you wouldn't want it to happen again either? or was it a one off cos something unusual had happened, or what? Or don't you know? - if not, should you see your Doctor? etc

Thing is it's a two way process this Disability lark isn't it? I think it's encumbent on us (can't speak for the rest of the disabled of course) to not teeter on the brink of hypo-land when we're employed and otherwise. The trouble with that of course is when we've gone for donkeys years and haven't shown signs of any probs, if we suddenly do, employers have no idea whatever how to cope with it. You can just hear them can't you - Well she didn't tell US this might happen! You can't expect us to know that .....

Two other suggestions apart from the Union; NB not instead of it - one's the Helpline at DUK, the other's the Disability Advisor at your local ACAS office.
 
Twitchy said:
Hello...

Are you a member of the PCS union? If not, join now as they can offer some advice & protection. Even now go & see your rep. If you are a member, did you take a rep into the hearing with you? (you are entitled to this).

The other thing is (so I'm told), it has to be exactly the same 'offence' repeated with the six months as otherwise any discip issue is a seperate one & after the 6 months the clock restarts...they need verbal plus 2 written warnings on exactly the same issue. There is apparently also an issue of provocation, as your colleagues are not entitled to tackle you directly re your performace - have they been pulled up on this at all?

By the way have you declared your diabetes & are they making suitable allowances iaw civil service disability policy? (ps go & check prg's).

I would also suggest a letter on your behalf from a medical professional such as you DSN or preferably consultant confirming what your meter picture represented & the consequences / symptoms (ie confusion, distress etc.)

I really think you need the union on this, as all you can do is redress your manager on grounds of not accounting for your disability.

Best of luck, don't let the b*****s grind you down! 🙂
Click to expand...

-----------

Thank you for your replies.

I'm not in the PCS union, and when I approached them the union rep said she was unable to assist with anything that occurred prior to the date I joined. Therefore I didn't join.

At the risk of sounding peevish, it seems very unfair to me to penalised in this way. All my hard work in the department I work in counts for nothing.

And this from a department that is always talking about diversity and the DDA. I'm ready to quit I am so fed up.

I have until the 18th July 2012 to appeal - so any advice you guys can offer would be gratefully received.
 
Chappy1234 said:
-----------

Thank you for your replies.

I'm not in the PCS union, and when I approached them the union rep said she was unable to assist with anything that occurred prior to the date I joined. Therefore I didn't join.

At the risk of sounding peevish, it seems very unfair to me to penalised in this way. All my hard work in the department I work in counts for nothing.

And this from a department that is always talking about diversity and the DDA. I'm ready to quit I am so fed up.

I have until the 18th July 2012 to appeal - so any advice you guys can offer would be gratefully received.
Click to expand...

I woudl appeal to ask how your medical evidence has been viewed and how it was decided you were still at fault. I would do everything I could to make sure that they have understood what a hypo is.

I would also consider bringing you own grievance against the two people who criticised you and make you doubt your own performance. If you are absolutely sure your work is still of the same standard as it has always been then you can class this criticising as bullying. See this link:
http://www.callcentrehelper.com/combating-bullying-and-harassment-in-the-workplace-162.htm

Do you know why you were being criticised. Is it something a chat with your co-workers and a manager could help with? Maybe ACAS could do some mediating.

Whatever you do dont walk - you will regret it later. I am afraid there are many bullys out there and the best advice I can give is learn how to stand up to them and take your own action if you can.

Good luck with it all.
 
Hi. Understand what the rep said, but if you've got this hanging over you ut seems sensible to join the union to cover your backside for next time. Make sure your manager knows too - maybe a pcs callander on your wall lol. Do be prepared to demonstrate that you are making efforts to control your sugar levels though - explain to your manager for example, that what might look like fumbling around on a blackberry etc is actually you checking sugar levels not skiving off check emails... 🙄
 
Hi Chappy 1234. You must never ever go into a discipline hearing un-accompanied, ever. The reason is they can say anything they want and you cant prove it wrong. You must now go back to the union rep and join ASAP. I had a similar situation as yourself but as I was the only person in the office who understood Network Rail track design I was never 'picked' on. I have accompanied many employees to a discipline hearing (as their rep) as I was 'untouchable' and I told them exactly what I thought of their warnings (great fun) as it was a hearing the defence can act a bit like Rumpole. Management dont like being challenged / proved wrong / stupid in front of a HR rep as it can show them up as weak. Good luck anyways hope it all resolves itself. By the way you did tell them you were 'insulin dependent' when you took the job on, yes?
 
Austin Mini said:
Hi Chappy 1234. You must never ever go into a discipline hearing un-accompanied, ever. The reason is they can say anything they want and you cant prove it wrong. You must now go back to the union rep and join ASAP. I had a similar situation as yourself but as I was the only person in the office who understood Network Rail track design I was never 'picked' on. I have accompanied many employees to a discipline hearing (as their rep) as I was 'untouchable' and I told them exactly what I thought of their warnings (great fun) as it was a hearing the defence can act a bit like Rumpole. Management dont like being challenged / proved wrong / stupid in front of a HR rep as it can show them up as weak. Good luck anyways hope it all resolves itself. By the way you did tell them you were 'insulin dependent' when you took the job on, yes?
Click to expand...

----------------

Unfortunately, the disciplinary hearing was done by my immediate boss, an 'independent observer' who took minutes and me.

The department is aware I am diabetic - the forms I had to fill in when I joined...

I said very little at the hearing and presented an eight-page written submission highligting what had gone on, why I had reacted the way I did, over-reacted if you like etc. The resulting letter I have been issued with says, and I quote:

"I have also considered your previous good conduct and the fact that at a discussion which took place between us in Feb 2012 you assured me that you recognised the signs of hypoglycaemia in sufficient time to be able to control any symptoms."

The above statement is true. I was and am able to recognise the symptoms and was about to take action but was confronted by criticism before I could test my blood and eat.

Better join the PCS then. I'm not convinced M S and co can help.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Im sorry you have been treated this way. Have you a 'First Aider' in your office? May be a good idea to inform them as they would have supported you during your hearing. Have you a 'Hypostop' in your desk drawer? Trouble with non diabetics they just dont know how quickly a Hypo can progress and get out of control. Please inform the union rep about your condition when you join (I have been with a union all my working life) they are there to help you get fair treatment from the likes of managers etc.
 
Just pondering on this .. were you technically still 'at lunch' when this occurred?

If so that's everything on your side, because they had no right to talk to you about work in your time and in any case by doing so, they prevented you from treating your hypo, which could have resulted in them having to call an ambulance. (Pity you didn't let it but we all have 20/20 vision in hindsight)

Whatever happens with this particular thing, you need to agree a strategy for the future.

In the past I have ALWAYS tried to make light of my condition so as not to inconvenience you - my employer or interrupt my work output whilst dealing with it. In view of this unfortunate and totally uncharacteristic occurrence, I have had to have a complete rethink on this and need to agree a strategy for dealing with future hypos with you so that everyone knows and understands.

I propose that if I am hypo (which I will of course always try to avoid - but as any diabetic or diabetes specialist will confirm - this is not possible to guarantee, 100% of the time) I will try to take the following action.

I will hold up my hand to blank the person addressing me, ignore them and treat my hypo in the normal manner. 45 minutes after my BG has re-attained non-hypo levels, I will resume working.

Cos it takes 45 minutes for your brain to recover - we have that in writing in black and white from the DVLA so they can't argue !

I should put that in writing and ask for a response within .. what, 2 or 3 working days? - cos you could have another one with all this stress in the interim, couldn't you? so time is of the essence ! :D
 
trophywench has a much valid point there chappy, were you on your official lunch break? By hindering you taking steps to avoid the hypo this unfortunate incident would NOT have happened and all this would have been avoided.
 
Hi Chappy

Not sure this will help but there is a grievance proceedure you should be able to follow whether you are in the union or not. Not easy as you have to work with your team. There is no way colleagues should be invading your desk to criticise work. All should be done via the manager.


I think you need to have a chat with your senior manager(line managers manager) to explain the position. As they would probably hear any appeal you make.

I had a colleague (now retired) who became quite agressive when she had a hypo; we had a stratagy to help her accept jelly babies etc when to those who didn't know thought she was "drunk again".

I know you said you put your diabetes down on your application forms, but have you also made sure you have checked the box on your "On-line" record to show you have a disability (if you want to of course).

Not sure which department you work in but you may want to consider obtaining I think it is called a "disability passport" which can set out what your needs are.

Take care
 
Hi Chappy

I can't offer any extra advice, but wanted to say good luck, I hope you get the outcome you are hoping for.
 
You could check your house insurance - some provide legal advice as part of the coverage, or try the citizen's advice bureau.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top