Adam and Eve it

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mikeydt1

mikeydt1

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well beggars believe a company who make covid vaccines some of the workers have only contracted the virus! what they should do is inject themselves to see if these vaccines do actually work
 
Well - they all have lives outside work.
 
Jenny just been reading that they now don't think that a single shot without the second isn't offering the protection level they thought. think we may see more about this issue over the next weeks.
 
mikeydt1 said:
Jenny just been reading that they now don't think that a single shot without the second isn't offering the protection level they thought. think we may see more about this issue over the next weeks.
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I don't see how Israel (or other countries following the recommended schedule) can tell us anything about what the UK is doing. As far as I understand it nobody expects a single dose to be that effective for the first couple of weeks or so (the expectation is that the immune response matures over that initial period).

What we really want is data on what antibodies, etc., look like after a month or two of a single dose. And the place to look for that is surely the UK (because nobody else is going to have enough people with a single dose unless something goes wrong).

(I've no evidence that anybody's planning on looking, but if they're not then we've really screwed up. We really should have been giving randomly chosen people a second dose at 21 days so they could be compared, but even now we've got some people who've got 2 doses and some who are still waiting, so I really hope some teams will be looking to see what happens.)
 
got to totally agree with getting data regarding antibodies that is the only way for sure we are even going to know if anything is working with these new vaccines. what is worrying is they were instructed 21 days but now are telling everyone 12 weeks. if the instructions are there they are there for a reason.
 
mikeydt1 said:
if the instructions are there they are there for a reason.
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That's easy: it's 21 days because that's what was in the trials. And that's why Pfizer won't (and can't) recommend anything else.

Why 21 days in the trials? As I understand it you don't want the gap too short because the initial immune response takes a while to happen properly (there's several stages to it) and probably they judged 21 days would be not too short (based on other vaccines). But they wanted to choose a short gap because that gets trial results faster.

I don't get the sense that anyone really thinks that 21 days is optimal. There's the cautious reason for wanting 21 days which is that it's what's been tested so it's known to work, and for those getting vaccinated early giving them something that definitely works reliably has obvious value. (Not sure anyone really thinks that making the gap bigger will break things entirely, but there's some doubt about what the protection from the first dose will be over time.)
 
Israeli minister for health has played down the early findings, saying it’s too soon to be able to draw any conclusions. During the first two weeks, people who had he vaccine developed Covid at the same rate as non-vaccinated. During the third week it was 33% less, and after that, the number of vaccinated people catching it was too small to be able to draw any early conclusions.
www.bbc.co.uk

Covid: Israel vaccine fears 'out of context and inaccurate'

Israel is likely to be the first country to see an impact from vaccination - but it is still too early.
www.bbc.co.uk
I also saw an article a few weeks ago, (can’t remember where now, sorry) that said the improvement after the second dose was seen so quickly, that it was probably due to the continuing development of the first dose.
 
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