A little confused

[Steve1122]

Does any food send BG rising? I ask because I had a meal tonight of bacon and a plain omelette which I believe was only 1g of carb. I expected a flat curve on my Libre, but from a 5.4 start it's risen steadily to 7.6 at one hour post meal (and has not yet turned downward). Anyone have any ideas why that should be?

steve

 

[helli]

There are a few reasons that come to mind
- maybe you have a new sensor which has not “bedded in” so is reading a little weird
- food is not the only thing that affects our blood sugars. For example, if you are watching the England match, the stress could cause your BG to rise.
- in the absence of any carbs (or very low carb), our body will break down the fat and protein. Many of us with Type 1, would need to take insulin for that meal for this reason.

 

[Steve1122]

There are a few reasons that come to mind
- maybe you have a new sensor which has not “bedded in” so is reading a little weird
- food is not the only thing that affects our blood sugars. For example, if you are watching the England match, the stress could cause your BG to rise.
- in the absence of any carbs (or very low carb), our body will break down the fat and protein. Many of us with Type 1, would need to take insulin for that meal for this reason.

Sensor is mid term so I suspect it's not that.

Haha, yes, I am watching the England game.

So, this could be my liver helping out?

Or do you mean breaking down the fat and protein in the meal to sugar?

Edited: Ah, reading your reply again I see you mean fat/protein in the meal.

Interesting, that, so does that mean all meals should be balanced with at least some carb to keep that from happening? I've assumed that the odd very low carb meal is a good thing. Now I'm not so sure.

Thanks for the reply...

steve

 

[helli]

@Steve1122 My bet (with no medical qualifications) would blame the footie and a bit of a liver dump to “help” you run out to celebrate/cry.
The fat/protein breakdown is something seen by people with Type 1 so I do not know how likely this is for type 2 where a few people swear by a pure carnivorous diet to keep their BG “in control”. Breaking down protein/fat takes longer than breaking down carbs so someone with type 2 may be better suited to manage it.
I would recommend trying the same meal in the future to see what happens … maybe wait until England is kicked out of the Euros.

 

[Steve1122]

Thanks, Helli, I'll do that.

 

[SB2015]

Interesting, that, so does that mean all meals should be balanced with at least some carb to keep that from happening? I've assumed that the odd very low carb meal is a good thing

If I had a carb free or extremely low carb meal I would need to start taking account of the protein and long ago I decided that there was no space in my head for more information, so I now just make sure that I include some carbs.

 

[rebrascora]

In the absence of enough carbs the body will break down about 40% of protein and about 10% of fat into glucose, but it takes about 2 hours for this to start happening and the release of glucose from it is very slow, over about 6-10 hours, so the benefit of low carb with particularly dietary controlled Type 2 is that the body has plenty of time to deal with that slow steady release whereas a sharp spike from carbs needs a significant amount of insulin up front which can be more challenging. Those of us with Type 1 who produce little or no insulin can find it more challenging but I find Libre makes it much easier than it ever was when we were just finger pricking and having to calculate doses for protein release. Now I can just wait for the slow steady rise on my Libre and when the alarm goes off at 9.2, I jab a couple of extra units and if it continues to rise or doesn't come down in the next hour I jab a bit more. No calculations required just a set response to particular circumstances. A few extra injections is no big deal to me for the benefit of decreased effort in carb counting and calculating doses.

My money would also be on the football causing your rise too..... Good thinking @helli!
I am very susceptible to stress/suspense and my levels once hit 17 during the critical mission scene in the Top Gun 2 movie. Of course sitting still during such a liver dump is also not helpful but you can't exactly start running around the room or up and down the stairs during a movie screening! It took ages for my insulin to bring it back down.

 

[Steve1122]

Thanks, Barbara, that's something I didn't know, and confirms what Helli and SB2015 say. I have a lot to learn about Diabetes

Who'd have thought watching England could be bad for the health? 🙂

 

[rebrascora]

Thanks, Barbara, that's something I didn't know, and confirms what Helli and SB2015 say. I have a lot to learn about Diabetes

Who'd have thought watching England could be bad for the health? 🙂

Firstly it usually involves sitting for extended periods of time which isn't good and I am pretty sure it will also raise your blood pressure, so not at all surprising that it isn't good for you! Far better to go out and play yourself than sit and watch.

 

[Steve1122]

Haha, I wish. Having lost a foot, I'd probably fall over trying to play football. Then again, playing for England that might be an asset. 🙂

 

[Steve1122]

Just for clarity, then, if a meal has 'enough' carbs does the protein content not matter (is it not metabolised to sugar)? Or, when counting carbs should I also be counting protein?

Or does this protein effect only happen with a low/zero carb meal?

Thanks for your insights, everyone, there's such a lot to learn about this condition and I'm grateful there's such a wealth of knowledge in here.

steve

 

[rebrascora]

As a Type 2 not on insulin, you really don't need to worry about the breakdown of protein at all but generally, if there are enough carbs in a meal, the body doesn't convert some of the protein and fat into glucose but on a keto diet it does, but your own insulin production should easily be able to manage the low slow release of glucose compared to the sudden and sharp spike you get from carbs. I believe it is somewhere between 30-40g carbs per meal which will prevent the break down of protein and fat into glucose. But as I said it is really only an issue when you are insulin dependent and eating low carb.

 

[harbottle]

Most of the research (Going back quite a long way) shows that protein doesn't raise blood glucose levels in people without diabetes and also in people with T2D:

Dietary Protein and the Blood Glucose Concentration

Body proteins are being synthesized and degraded continuously (1). The estimated turnover is ∼210 g/day (2). Amino acids resulting from protein degradation

diabetesjournals.org

Effect of a High-Protein, Low-Carbohydrate Diet on Blood Glucose Control in People With Type 2 Diabetes

There has been interest in the effect of various types and amounts of dietary carbohydrates and proteins on blood glucose. On the basis of our previous dat

diabetesjournals.org

For T1 diabetes the situation is different:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4512569/pdf/11892_2015_Article_630.pdf

The mechanisms proposed are an alteration of hormones that control glucose homeostasis and an increase in gluconeogenesis due to lack of insulin to stop the process. (Apparently protein stimulates the release of glucagon, which in a non-diabetic would cause a release of insulin which is used to push amino acids into cells - not enough insulin present means the glucagon stimulates an increase in blood sugar which is not countered.) Seems that it's not that protein that gets converted to glucose, it actually stimulates a rise in blood glucose levels as a mechanism designed to metabolise amino acids into cells.

(I've not really read this thoroughly, but that my general take on it!)

 

[harbottle]

Does any food send BG rising? I ask because I had a meal tonight of bacon and a plain omelette which I believe was only 1g of carb. I expected a flat curve on my Libre, but from a 5.4 start it's risen steadily to 7.6 at one hour post meal (and has not yet turned downward). Anyone have any ideas why that should be?

steve

Are you on any medication?

 

[Steve1122]

As a Type 2 not on insulin, you really don't need to worry about the breakdown of protein at all but generally, if there are enough carbs in a meal, the body doesn't convert some of the protein and fat into glucose but on a keto diet it does, but your own insulin production should easily be able to manage the low slow release of glucose compared to the sudden and sharp spike you get from carbs. I believe it is somewhere between 30-40g carbs per meal which will prevent the break down of protein and fat into glucose. But as I said it is really only an issue when you are insulin dependent and eating low carb.

Thanks, Barbara, that's great. I'm sure it's not an issue for me, as you say. I was just interested in what was happening.

Thanks again, steve

 

[Steve1122]

Most of the research (Going back quite a long way) shows that protein doesn't raise blood glucose levels in people without diabetes and also in people with T2D:

Dietary Protein and the Blood Glucose Concentration

Body proteins are being synthesized and degraded continuously (1). The estimated turnover is ∼210 g/day (2). Amino acids resulting from protein degradation

diabetesjournals.org

Effect of a High-Protein, Low-Carbohydrate Diet on Blood Glucose Control in People With Type 2 Diabetes

There has been interest in the effect of various types and amounts of dietary carbohydrates and proteins on blood glucose. On the basis of our previous dat

diabetesjournals.org

For T1 diabetes the situation is different:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4512569/pdf/11892_2015_Article_630.pdf

The mechanisms proposed are an alteration of hormones that control glucose homeostasis and an increase in gluconeogenesis due to lack of insulin to stop the process. (Apparently protein stimulates the release of glucagon, which in a non-diabetic would cause a release of insulin which is used to push amino acids into cells - not enough insulin present means the glucagon stimulates an increase in blood sugar which is not countered.) Seems that it's not that protein that gets converted to glucose, it actually stimulates a rise in blood glucose levels as a mechanism designed to metabolise amino acids into cells.

(I've not really read this thoroughly, but that my general take on it!)

Thank you, I'll read those articles later (appointments today!).

steve

 

[Steve1122]

Are you on any medication?

I'm on Gabapentin, a daily aspirin, and paracetamol. I was on Metformin and Gliclazide but it was decided I'm managing things so well that I was taken off them.

steve

 

[harbottle]

I'm on Gabapentin, a daily aspirin, and paracetamol. I was on Metformin and Gliclazide but it was decided I'm managing things so well that I was taken off them.

steve

Interesting, strange that it went up like that with virtually no carbs. Did you double check with a finger prick. I *do* find Libre sensors have a bit of a mind of their own sometimes and will show a rise that isn't happening (Sometimes just getting up from the sofa or starting to walk can see it shoot up briefly, but the graph eventually corrects itself.)

 

[Steve1122]

I never thought to verify with a finger prick or two. Yes, I get that odd rise each time I get up/do something, and then it falls back to what it was after a few minutes. Sometimes even just talking has that effect.