“Calories, Carbs, or Quality: What Matters Most for Body Weight?”

Eddy Edson

Eddy Edson

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
Just to balance out the frequent carbs-cause-overweight etc etc messages you see at dubious sites like Freshwell & often repeated here, this is Kevin Hall (lead obesity researcher at the US govt's National Institutes of Health) discussing his experimental work, hugely influential in the scientific field:

And another talk, going over some of the same material from a slightly different direction:

If you're into this stuff, Hall's work is fascinating.
 
Last edited:
Got any links for papers - I'm just not an information via video gal, specially 1hr long 😳
 
ty
Call me data driven .. an overthinker ... a nerd .. a weirdo ... I don't care :D
I track food eaten (full plate minus empty plate = food eaten), fats, carbs and protein
I don't follow any 'official' plan regardless of origin - I actually throw the numbers in a spreadsheet

M watch gives me an (inaccurate) estimate of calories used daily
a bit of reading indicated a max 30% of the days calories as total fats (a max of 7% of daily calories as saturated fat for a med style diet)
I added a carb target of approx 100g a day, and minimum recommended protein (to reduce the work of my kidneys)

Then cos I want to lose weight I set a target of lower calories purely to work out targets for average daily % for fats, carbs, protein. Then ignored calories other than a glance out of curiosity.
Then being an overthinker nerd I recorded results.

and for me the result is that no one thing seems to be specifically linked to weight loss, but generally eating less while trying not to overeat on any one of fats or carbs does work for me. And incorporating a few treats means sticking to it is easier.

I know - too much info .. but overthinker nerd here 🙄, I'll go hide under a rock now :D
 
Whilst I totally agree my data does not support it hehe

Part of my number crunching was a split, including days in between losing 1 pound
the most extreme examples being 3 days to lose 1 lb eating an average 1263 calories a day, compared to 8 days to lose 1 pound eating an average 909 calories a day.
While I did not include the inaccurate estimate of calories used from my watch (perhaps I should), I have looked at the variation over time in the data for a 1 pound loss

I'm not bothered tho, while I do aim to lose weight I do not regard myself as dieting, and I do not beat myself up if I exceed targets
 
beating_my_betes said:
It's calories/energy, though the other factors can perhaps (in some) contribute to the overall picture.
Click to expand...
Probably more than anybody else, Hall is the person who has actually demonstrated that experimentally. Calories rather than macronutrient composition isn't a matter of thermodynamics or whatever. Rather, it's a contingency dependant on biochemistry having evolved exquisite, complex machinery for getting the maximum out of whatever food is available.

Hall from an earlier (2011) paper:

However, apart from a few notable exceptions,61–63 most results from inpatient studies with adequately controlled diets have shown little effect of diet composition on bodyweight and fat-mass changes.64–69 These results therefore show the exquisite regulation of metabolic fuel selection to adjust to the macronutrient content of the diet.Far from being an obvious consequence of the first law of thermodynamics (often expressed as “a calorie is a calorie”),70 the observation that bodyweight and composition seem to depend little on the macronutrient composition of the diet requires a robust physiological control system to adapt metabolic fuels to the diet composition.

 
Last edited:
Eddy Edson said:
Probably more than anybody else, Hall is the person who has actually demonstrated that experimentally. Calories rather than macronutrient composition isn't a matter of thermodynamics or whatever. Rather, it's a contingency dependant on biochemistry having evolved exquisite, complex machinery for getting the maximum out of whatever food is available.
Click to expand...
Sounds like his work supports the results I see in my spreadsheet, perhaps I should see if he needs a research partner 😎
 
Eddy Edson said:
Hall from an earlier (2011) paper:

Far from being an obvious consequence of the first law of thermodynamics (often expressed as “a calorie is a calorie”),70 the observation that bodyweight and composition seem to depend little on the macronutrient composition of the diet requires a robust physiological control system to adapt metabolic fuels to the diet composition. [my bold - jitr]

Click to expand...
Yes, and it seems that 'physiological control system' for glucose and lipids (fats), at least, becomes dysregulated as fatty liver develops and HbA1c rises during pre-prediabetes and prediabetes before the onset of T2D itself. As far as I know the only way to reverse fatty liver, if you can, is by diet.

Thanks for the reminder to have a look at Kevin Hall's work.
 
An excellent collegiate piece just published arising from a workshop bringing together opposing voices: Hall, John Speakman et al in the "EBM" (energy balance model) corner, and Ludwig, Taubes et al under the "CIM" (carbohydrate insulin model) banner: https://www.nature.com/articles/s42255-024-01106-8

The CIM is the model underlying the carbs-make-you-fat etc etc position; the EBM is the modern framwork for the no-i'ts-the-calories position. Really recommend reading this paper before bothering much to have an opinion either way.

Application of the physical laws of energy and mass conservation at the whole-body level is not necessarily informative about causal mechanisms of weight gain and the development of obesity. The energy balance model (EBM) and the carbohydrate–insulin model (CIM) are two plausible theories, among several others, attempting to explain why obesity develops within an overall common physiological framework of regulation of human energy metabolism. These models have been used to explain the pathogenesis of obesity in individuals as well as the dramatic increases in the prevalence of obesity worldwide over the past half century. Here, we summarize outcomes of a recent workshop in Copenhagen that brought together obesity experts from around the world to discuss causal models of obesity pathogenesis. These discussions helped to operationally define commonly used terms; delineate the structure of each model, particularly focussing on areas of overlap and divergence; challenge ideas about the importance of purported causal factors for weight gain; and brainstorm on the key scientific questions that need to be answered. We hope that more experimental research in nutrition and other related fields, and more testing of the models and their predictions will pave the way and provide more answers about the pathogenesis of obesity than those currently available.
 
Again, thank you for posting this. Will take a bit of digesting along with Kevin Hall's work. Incidentally he leant towards a low carb diet for T2 in an answer to a question at the end of the second youtube in the OP, but thought whether it would lead to remission was questionable!
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top