The Fast Fix: Diabetes - ITV, 13th/14th June 2018

[Maz2]

Also it would be quite easy to find five people it had worked for. I think there are at least 3 on this Forum, so not very representative when there are millions of people with it.

 

[Bubbsie]

I did not like this programme at all. Diabetes is not the only problem the NHS has - underfunding, ageing population etc. There is no one problem associated with it, although, of course, diabetes is one of them.

I would like to know how underweight people are supposed to do this diet. I am not diabetic at present, pre-diabetic, out of it, gone up again but if I lost two stone I would end up in hospital as would be very badly underweight. As no-one can do that kind of diet for life it may not work in the long-term.

My friend's husband is underweight and diabetic so not sure what he is supposed to do or how it ends up being his "fault". This is my fear with this programme that people who are diabetic are going to be blamed for it when it is not their fault.

Good luck to people who have managed to "reverse" it but everyone cannot.

I much preferred "The Truth about Carbs" last week and Michael Moseley's programmes.

Type 2 diabetics are and have been a popular 'whipping boy' for the media...the general public & many areas of our NHS to excuse the shameful underfunding of the NHS in general Maz… we are identified as being responsible for the impending bankruptcy of the NHS...for developing diabetes...we don't all fit into the same bracket rightly said...I would like to know how anyone is expected to do this diet...it is hard & extreme...for some it could be downright dangerous...a programme of low/moderate carbs with high fats (good fats) would be a more sustainable successful project to work on...but why on earth would the media...the medical profession and the general public listen to those T2's who use this (LCHF) successfully to control their conditions...after all what would we know.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Type 2 diabetics are and have been a popular 'whipping boy' for the media...the general public & many areas of our NHS to excuse the shameful underfunding of the NHS in general Maz… we are identified as being responsible for the impending bankruptcy of the NHS...for developing diabetes...we don't all fit into the same bracket rightly said...I would like to know how anyone is expected to do this diet...it is hard & extreme...for some it could be downright dangerous...a programme of low/moderate carbs with high fats (good fats) would be a more sustainable successful project to work on...but why on earth would the media...the medical profession and the general project listen to those T2's who use this (LCHF) successfully to control their conditions...after all what would we know.

Depends on your viewpoint I guess.
The only person that can tell you how you are expected to do this diet is yourself.

A high fat diet for the rest of my life to "control" diabetes wasn't really a lifestyle choice I was prepared to make, particularly as the option to live without any "control" was there.
I didn't think an 8 week diet followed by eating normally was particularly hard to actually reverse diabetes instead.

 

[Bubbsie]

That's your viewpoint...so it's all good traveller.

 

[Maz2]

I am very pleased it has worked for you traveller but it is no good for those underweight or normal weight who could make themselves ill. Also it may not continue to work in the long-term, say over 5 years or so. I certainly hope it does for you and anyone else who has managed it.

I am sick to death of the media using diabetics as "whipping boys" as Bubbsie said. It is one of the reasons why I dislike the media so much at the moment. With diabetes I honestly believe they are a menace. At one time it was smokers even though I know someone who have just finished lung cancer treatment who has never smoked in her life.

I know lots of people who are diabetic, pre-diabetic and borderline diabetic. Some of them do not take as much notice of what they eat as I do but I still don't see why they should be "beaten up" by the media so to speak. I know people who are overweight and obese who are not diabetic or pre-diabetic so it is not just a matter of weight.

I was chatting to a lady in my Tai Chi class who has cut her carbs and come off meds and got back to normal readings after 11 years on 4 Metformin a day. She is also sick of the way the media are handling the diabetes problem too. She is waiting for her next hba1c and I hope she continues to be successful but she said everyone cannot do it, it depends on the individual.

 

[Bubbsie]

Diet is still in research phase and the number studied have been small and the there has been no long term follow up.

Well said grovesy…a good point.

 

[Maz2]

E

Well said grovesy…a good point.

Entirely agree grovesy. 8 weeks is one thing; you could not carry on like that for 8 years and is it going to continue in the long-term. Not sure if NHS accept this research but, if not, may be why i.e. it has not been tested in the long-term.

 

[Bubbsie]

I am very pleased it has worked for you traveller but it is no good for those underweight or normal weight who could make themselves ill. Also it may not continue to work in the long-term, say over 5 years or so. I certainly hope it does for you and anyone else who has managed it.

I am sick to death of the media using diabetics as "whipping boys" as Bubbsie said. It is one of the reasons why I dislike the media so much at the moment. With diabetes I honestly believe they are a menace. At one time it was smokers even though I know someone who have just finished lung cancer treatment who has never smoked in her life.

I know lots of people who are diabetic, pre-diabetic and borderline diabetic. Some of them do not take as much notice of what they eat as I do but I still don't see why they should be "beaten up" by the media so to speak. I know people who are overweight and obese who are not diabetic or pre-diabetic so it is not just a matter of weight.

I was chatting to a lady in my Tai Chi class who has cut her carbs and come off meds and got back to normal readings after 11 years on 4 Metformin a day. She is also sick of the way the media are handling the diabetes problem too. She is waiting for her next hba1c and I hope she continues to be successful but she said everyone cannot do it, it depends on the individual.

Not everyone can put their diabetes into remission Maz...however just the slightest change to diet...lifestyle & activity (if able) can bring about some improvement...however minor...so there can be many positive benefits from hearing about T2 in the media...but those examples should have a positive element to them...point out you can start gradually it doesn't have to be an all out starvation diet...for those that can use the600/ 800 calories a day diet that's good...for those that can't there has to be an alternative...a choice...then we can exercise our judgement judicially

 

[Deleted member 21371]

I am very pleased it has worked for you traveller but it is no good for those underweight or normal weight who could make themselves ill. Also it may not continue to work in the long-term, say over 5 years or so. I certainly hope it does for you and anyone else who has managed it.

I am sick to death of the media using diabetics as "whipping boys" as Bubbsie said. It is one of the reasons why I dislike the media so much at the moment. With diabetes I honestly believe they are a menace. At one time it was smokers even though I know someone who have just finished lung cancer treatment who has never smoked in her life.

I know lots of people who are diabetic, pre-diabetic and borderline diabetic. Some of them do not take as much notice of what they eat as I do but I still don't see why they should be "beaten up" by the media so to speak. I know people who are overweight and obese who are not diabetic or pre-diabetic so it is not just a matter of weight.

I was chatting to a lady in my Tai Chi class who has cut her carbs and come off meds and got back to normal readings after 11 years on 4 Metformin a day. She is also sick of the way the media are handling the diabetes problem too. She is waiting for her next hba1c and I hope she continues to be successful but she said everyone cannot do it, it depends on the individual.

That's the thing about diabetes, it's not the same for everyone.

If underweight was the norm for type 2, probably it wouldn't be effective to look at a weight loss diet.
As far as I know, the majority of type 2's aren't underweight though, so it's fairly meaningless to dismiss weight loss as being effective for the majority, that were overweight like I was.

And yes, if you are overweight, and not diabetic, losing weight to reverse diabetes wouldn't really be meaningful for that group either.
As to the media, they can't reverse, or not reverse my diabetes, so I didn't really factor them into my decision either.

I was just a fat diabetic, and now I'm not.
And it was a few years or so ago, that works for me, I don't need to get hung up justifying why it may not work for others, or why it may not last.

As to lung cancer, I doubt I'd advocate smoking not being associated with lung cancer, and not giving up, simply because you know someone that didn't smoke and still had lung cancer.
But I do agree with your similarly of it to the small percentage of diabetics being underweight.

I'd give up smoking, same as I'd give up being fat.

It's a personal choice we all have to justify to ourselves at the end of the day though.

 

[chaoticcar]

If I did this diet I would be down the plug hole in 2weeks !!!
Carol

 

[grovesy]

As i understand other researchers are finding evidence that Diabetes is a spectrum of conditions, that need a range of treatments. I believe there are over 50 variations recognised at the moment.
I know I personally adopted away of eating initially that I could not maintain over long term, despite good weight loss and blood levels. I have over the 15 years had to reassess and adapt what I do.

 

[Maz2]

I heard that grovesy. I was amazed when I first started on this Forum that there was MODY and LADA. I had no idea there was anything other than Type I or II. It is all so individual.

 

[grovesy]

I heard that grovesy. I was amazed when I first started on this Forum that there was MODY and LADA. I had no idea there was anything other than Type I or II. It is all so individual.

Don't forget the 3c who have pancreatic problems or surgery and steroid induced.

 

[Grannylorraine]

I haven't watched it yet, hubby has recorded. I'll comment in full when I have watched it.

 

[Grannylorraine]

I am confused. They are having 800 calories a day, but they don't seem to be drinking water. Am I missing something or do the shakes really replace everything? (food and drink)

Having seen this post, I was told in no uncertain terms by a liver consultant that when losing weight it must be slow and steady and I was not to follow any form of very low calorie diet or a meal replacement diet as these types of diet would be detrimental to my liver.

 

[Gimli]

My nana was type 1 and sadly died of it jn 1962 things so different
My mam was type 2 as arw myself my sister and my brother.
If not genetic there are some strong coincidences
My sister at age 60ish is under 9 stone so no way over weight

 

[Northerner]

I think there is some misunderstanding creeping into this thread. As one of a number of methods of getting diabetes under control there is nothing wrong with it, and it may even be argued that, subject to the right assessment of likely benefit, it might be used as a 'first line' treatment that might help many, many people, as long as they received the level of support required. Sadly, we know all too well that people are often given a diagnosis and then sent away with an unhelpful leaflet or two and a packet of metformin - there are neither the resources in the health service, nor even in many cases the slightest interest in providing this support.

Weight is a very significant factor in the development of diabetes in a lot of people, where they might be fine up to a certain 'tipping point', but then that little extra weight increases insulin resistance to a degree that levels become abnormal, the pancreas tries to respond by producing extra insulin which then causes more weight gain as excess glucose is laid down as fat, particularly around the major organs where its effect is most detrimental. This tipping point may vary vastly from person to person, so a person who is only slightly overweight may develop problems - for others it may require a much greater period and amount of weight gain. We're human beings, and we are incredibly complex in the way we work and are able to deal with things.

There's an important genetic element at play as well (except perhaps in 'temporary' manifestations, such as gestational or steroid-induced diabetes - I don't know the facts). If, as we are told, 60-70% of the UK population are overweight or obese, yet only around 9% of the population has diabetes, then just being overweight doesn't inevitably lead to Type 2 diabetes, you need some other factors to be at play. I think this genetic element is what comes into play where the 20% of people with Type 2 (a not-insignificant 800,000 people) who do not fit the the stereotype become affected. Many people develop diabetes simply because they are getting older and their pancreas/body does not work as efficiently.

Because most overweight or obese people don't get Type 2 diabetes, I think this is why the dire warnings often issued are ignored - 'it would never happen to me'.

My objection is not to this approach as a treatment but to the presentation of it as a panacea when no such thing exists. As @grovesy says, Type 2 diabetes is not one condition it is more like a spectrum - I've read enough 'case histories' here over the past 10 years to know this to be true. If we are really going to turn things around then it has to start with the medical support that people receive right at diagnosis, so people are fully aware of their options and receive intensive support in achieving their aims. That would require a huge upfront cost, but save the cost many times over in reducing medication, complications, and potential loss to the economy.

 

[Bubbsie]

My nana was type 1 and sadly died of it jn 1962 things so different
My mam was type 2 as arw myself my sister and my brother.
If not genetic there are some strong coincidences
My sister at age 60ish is under 9 stone so no way over weight

Hi Gimli...it's clear there must be a genetic pre-disposition to T2 diabetes...we have a family history...several years prior to my diagnosis I was fit...well...exercised everyday...swimming...running...circuit training had lots of stamina & was very athletic...then the classic symptom arrived...tiredness...lethargy...the craving for carbs...then more carbs...the weight went on...it wasn't until I was very ill a couple of years ago my diabetes was diagnosed by accident...I have discussed this with my GP...he is convinced there is a genetic pre-disposition...that I had been diabetic for several years....my research indicates there is...weight is a factor that may mean it develops faster than usual...but it is not the cause... I'd be interested see some research that looks at why many T2's pile on the weight...the craving for carbs...our bodies need energy...so we eat the carbs...those carbs are not being used...creating energy that doesn't get to where it needs to go...it's not used...so we crave more carbs and so on & so on...rather than look for blame...it would be a good idea to educate the whole population...perhaps some form of regular screening...a more pro-active response from the powers that be.

 

[Maz2]

diabetes, it's not the same for everyone.

Don't forget the 3c who have pancreatic problems or surgery and steroid induced.

Ah. Did not know about that. Wonder if my friend Diane has that one. She has had pancreatitis on a few occasions and her blood sugars were up at about 16 recently. She has been put on insulin to get them down and been told it is Type II but I was wondering if it was late onset type I. Maybe it is this one. Will let docs sort that one out. I know she is back under the consultant who sorted out the pancreatitis previously.

 

[Maz2]

Hi Gimli...it's clear there must be a genetic pre-disposition to T2 diabetes...we have a family history...several years prior to my diagnosis I was fit...well...exercised everyday...swimming...running...circuit training had lots of stamina & was very athletic...then the classic symptom arrived...tiredness...lethargy...the craving for carbs...then more carbs...the weight went on...it wasn't until I was very ill a couple of years ago my diabetes was diagnosed by accident...I have discussed this with my GP...he is convinced there is a genetic pre-disposition...that I had been diabetic for several years....my research indicates there is...weight is a factor that may mean it develops faster than usual...but it is not the cause... I'd be interested see some research that looks at why many T2's pile on the weight...the craving for carbs...our bodies need energy...so we eat the carbs...those carbs are not being used...creating energy that doesn't get to where it needs to go...it's not used...so we crave more carbs and so on & so on...rather than look for blame...it would be a good idea to educate the whole population...perhaps some form of regular screening...a more pro-active response from the powers that be.

In some cases it must be Bubbsie. I am hoping I am not one of them and, if so, I hope I can still stop it from happening.

Someone I used to work with has BP problems yet he is a rugby ref and runs marathons, very fit indeed. He has it in the family.