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Do I have a right to appeal

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Colin dale

New Member
Hi just come across the site, hi everyone and hope I can get some idea what happens.
I work in the railway driving machines cranes etc. I had a medical 2 weeks ago. The medical is spot on apart from me being on a recent change to insulin. I now don't have a job because of this. It's network rails policy that is you have insulin you can not do my job. Typ2 with insulin you can ??? I'm going to appeal the medical tomorrow as I have nothing to lose. It's all I know, I love my my job I've never had any blackouts as they say I might have. Or lows highs my HBN1C are 7.5. Any advice please would be great. Many thanks.
 
I don't wish to play devil's advocate but if you are driving large heavy machines which have the capacity to inflict serious damage or even death to you or people around you then compounded with the risk of hypoglycaemia which taking insulin involves your employer may be doing the right thing. I don't know how they will stand legally because I have not seen your employment contract but from a practical point of view hypoglycaemia can render you incapable at times and can cause you to do some fairly crazy stuff at other times. Do you really want to be in control of dangerous heavy plant in such a scenario? If you wish to pursue this then I think you really need an employment lawyer to take on your case. It would be inappropriate for any of us on here to comment at length because we do not know the particulars of your medical examination. I suspect however that this examination would have gone into the fine detail of your own condition. I am sorry if I appear not to support your cause but I feel that your employer has a responsibility for your own safety and the wellbeing of your colleagues
 
There have been VERY recent changes within London Transport, or whoever it is that employ Tube train drivers because one of the members on here recently got permission to return to driving one.

I know him by his Christian name but can't recall his 'handle' on here. Have a Search for it - it may assist you.

What have your Union said?
 
Hi and thanks for your reply guys... I'm not in a union I'm employed by a company that does renewal engineering work for NWR..... Thankyou
 
Surely if you can check your BG levels every 2 hrs (similar to HGV driving etc) then there is no reason to prevent you from continuing in your present job?
Is this a case for the advocacy I read about on here somewhere? I suspect they could be breaching the DDA if there is a policy?
Good luck in your appeal.
 
Colin dale said:
Hi just come across the site, hi everyone and hope I can get some idea what happens.
I work in the railway driving machines cranes etc. I had a medical 2 weeks ago. The medical is spot on apart from me being on a recent change to insulin. I now don't have a job because of this. It's network rails policy that is you have insulin you can not do my job. Typ2 with insulin you can ??? I'm going to appeal the medical tomorrow as I have nothing to lose. It's all I know, I love my my job I've never had any blackouts as they say I might have. Or lows highs my HBN1C are 7.5. Any advice please would be great. Many thanks.
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Hi Colin, I don't know the ins and outs of it, but it might be worth contacting the Diabetes UK Helpline tomorrow and asking them what your options and rights might be. You can contact them at:

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/helpline

They also have an advocacy service although again, I don't know whether this would be able to help you. I hope you manage to get a successful outcome.

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/How_we_help/Advocacy/
 
zx10pilot said:
Surely if you can check your BG levels every 2 hrs (similar to HGV driving etc) then there is no reason to prevent you from continuing in your present job?
Is this a case for the advocacy I read about on here somewhere? I suspect they could be breaching the DDA if there is a policy?
Good luck in your appeal.
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You cannot hold a HGV license if you are treated with insulin 😉



WRONG WRONG AND THRICE WRONG 😳
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hmmm, not so sure about that:

From INF4D "Medical examination report for a Group 2 (lorry or bus) licence D4" avaialable here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/492335/INF4D_091115.pdf

3. Insulin treated diabetes If you have insulin-treated diabetes you may be eligible to apply for a Group 2 licence. An annual assessment by a hospital consultant specialising in the treatment of diabetes is required and you will have to meet strict criteria for controlling and monitoring your diabetes. This includes having at least 3 months of blood glucose readings available for inspection on a blood glucose meter(s) with a memory function.
For further information, please refer to leaflet INS186 – A guide for drivers with diabetes who wish to apply for vocational entitlement. This is available to download from www.gov.uk/diabetes-driving

From INS186 "A guide for drivers with Insulin Treated Diabetes who wish to apply for Vocational Entitlement(small lorries, minibuses, large lorries and buses)" available here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/251492/INS186_091013.pdf

"Following a change in European Union legislation, from 15 November 2011, anyone who has diabetes controlled with insulin can now apply for, or renew their vocational entitlements to drive categories C1, C1E, D1, D1E, C, CE, D or DE."

So you can hold the license but you have to maintain BG records even when not driving.

Please tell me if I've misunderstood this - having just got my "new 3yr" license back (recently diagnosed with T1) I did look into the restrictions and changes.
regards
zx
 
I was actually incorrect in my earlier statement. You can in fact legally hold a HGV license when treated using insulin at least in theory. In practice there is in fact 'many a slip between cup and lip' pardon my pun but I have a friend who was diagnosed type 1 a couple of years ago and had to give up driving. He has friends who went through the same process. In practical terms things are made so difficult for you that few individuals if any ( his words not mine) pursue the license to its ultimate conclusion. For my own part when I last renewed my 3 year license DVLA included some material that suggested I could apply for the next category up from a 'standard car and light van license'. As we sometimes cater for larger and heavier pieces of equipment it seemed a good idea (at the time) to apply for this. To suggest that they had me jumping through hoops would be a gross understatement. I had to seek a private appointment with my own GP who charged me the neck end of four hundred quid to complete his section of the form. He filled parts of it in incorrectly but in fairness to him the form was highly ambiguous. Things went backwards and forwards and I had other chargeable visits to my GP who kept rubbing his hands every time I went into his surgery. All of this went on for approximately 7 months start to finish and in the end I gave up. I shudder to think what a HGV application would involve but frankly I don't give a rats behind because I have no ability or ambition to drive heavy goods vehicles.
 
Thanks for your clarification - I have no experience of applying (luckily it seems!) and have no need to, so although this is slightly off topic it does still help the original poster in that a blanket ban by his employer could be illegal under the DDA.
 
I suspect even if successful it would prove to be a very long and very arduous battle. You could be absolutely correct though and maybe Colin has a chance of getting the thing repealed. I can however appreciate his employers reticence given the type of plant he appears to drive for a living.
 
Hmm, I suspect likewise :(
 
I'd suggest that if they allow type 2's on insulin to continue working, then they should for people with type 1. The distinction appears arbitrary to me and should be challenged.
 
Andy HB said:
I'd suggest that if they allow type 2's on insulin to continue working, then they should for people with type 1. The distinction appears arbitrary to me and should be challenged.
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Please be careful what you wish for. This may sound a little bit odd and I hope to whichever God any of us choose to worship that it never actually happens but the day that there is a lorry crash with fatalities which is proven to be caused by a hypoglycaemic driver I am of the personal opinion that it will push the cause of type 1 diabetic drivers back onto horseback. I don't mean to sound harsh or cruel I really don't but the Great British Joe Soap never seems content unless he or she has somewhere to dollop large servings of good home cooked blame :(
 
Welcome to the forum Colin. I urge you to contact Diabetes UK ahead of your appeal hearing. You need facts, not speculation from me and time is very short. Good luck! You may also help others by alerting Diabetes UK to the issue.
 
Ah - a bit like when you want to keep you old C1 (over 3.5 tonne) when you are 70+ then!

Incidentally, if it's a vocational licence as opposed to a 'leisure' one - our surgery doctors charge a lot less for them. The other thing worth knowing is that there are a couple of specialist 'travelling doctors' services in the UK who will do the examinations for licences almost anywhere and usually charge a lot less for them.
 
Been on the phone to diabetic UK and they have been a great help...apart from that no one is being helpful at all. From pillow to post at the moment. Thank you your help so far. Colin
 
Good ! Let us know how you get on please? - not the detail LOL - just generally.
 
Colin dale said:
Been on the phone to diabetic UK and they have been a great help...apart from that no one is being helpful at all. From pillow to post at the moment. Thank you your help so far. Colin
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Colin - Do you have access to the written policy your employer is enforcing? If not, ask them for it. That might shed some light on what's going on, or help with your appeal.

If you are a union member; have you considered consulting them? They are likely to understand your firm's conditions/requirements. I'd also consider calling ACAS who will be abreast of the legislation, and may have had some experience with such a large employer.

Finally, check if your home insurance includes legal cover. Many do. My employer used to cover legal fees cover for everything, excluding employment law. Whilst irritating, you can understand why they wouldn't want to provide a benefit allowing their employees to sue them on they bill!

Whilst not in any way similar to your own circumstances, my brother had a bit of a hitch himself about a year ago, when some medication changed, around the same time as he was due his medical to work offshore, in a "hazardous environment" (not that he considers it such). The rule he fell foul of was his medication starting/stopping or changing within 3 months of his medical certificate renewal. He should have been totally declined his certificate, but instead, the Doctor doing the medical awarded his a certificate too work closer to home. His employer "doesn't do" the sort of work he does around Europe. This meant he ended up on sick leave, without pay. It took ages to get to the bottom of it, with appeals etc. In the end, he was able to satisfy the medical after the 3 months from the change had elapsed and got back to work, but I can appreciate how stressful this is for you.

Good luck with it all. It's a time to do lots of reading and listening as well and enquiring.
 
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