Low carb diets

[lauraw1983]

I am not sure where this post should go but will put it here for now, if it needs moved could a lovely moderator do that for me please?

It is a general question, but also a bit about weight loss.

I got this book a while ago, but faffed about not starting it yet. http://www.pig2twig.co.uk/ Then of course with my diagnosis in November it all fell by the wayside while I dealt with everything else anyway.

I just wondered the thoughts here on low carb diets, this is primarily for weight loss - I have two weddings this year and have 1.5-2 stone to shift for them! The first is in May, then July, and a hen weekend away in April!

I have lost a stone already, when I was on Byetta and briefly Victoza (mostly due to nausea/vomiting, not pleasant 😱) but having started on insulin in December I can already feel a couple of lbs reappearing....😡

So anyway, being as it is that carbs are basically evil for us diabetics 😉 , are these diets considered safe for weight loss? Some (non-D) friends have lots loads on it and look fantastic, though of course they have an obliging pancreas for it too!

My confusion lay with being in ketosis, I realise the presence of ketones for diabetics are not a good thing, but that ketoacidosis IS a different thing. Is being in ketosis in this way ok for me, or is is dangerous too?

I realise it is a v good way for a Type 2 to eat, but what about a Type 1?

Any advice or info appreciated please! Thank you.

 

[Nyadach]

Remember when I did my DAFNE and was trying to get my long term under something more predictable was recommended omelettes as a "free" feed etc. While they are it seems, it does depend what goes into them and have found when eating out the cook can throw no end of stuff in which can make them countable (had one which knocked BG off so much I figured it out to be about 45g). But if you are doing them yourself and you know what you put in, than free seems to work great. But as a weight loss food not so sure on them being that good though. Other big advantage of "free" food is it can be a good solution when you are somewhere you can't simply drop you pants and inject in public so avoiding an injection till your next meal can be useful 😛

 

[Northerner]

I think quite a few of our members follow a relatively low-carb diet and there shouldn't be a problem with it as long as you are having your insulin. Ketones need insulin so that they can be processed out of your system properly, which is one of the reasons they can build up if you don't have sufficient insulin circulating (which would also be indicated by high blood sugar levels).

An advantage in low-carbing can also be that your insulin doses will be smaller and carb-counting (I have found) tends to be more accurate when doses are small. 🙂

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I have met/come across several T1s online who have gone the low carb route, though this was more for improvements in control than weight loss.

I suspect moderation is a slightly more suitable/easier approach for a T1 because of the vaguaries of insulin action. If you go very low carb my understanding is that the body becomes increasingly adept at converting protein & fat to glucose (though this is a slower process) so it becomes harder to match insulin action to absorption because of the timescales involved. Additionally at very low carb levels insulin doses in 1u increments might become increasingly clumsy tools to work with.

Having said that many people here (myself included) would be branded low-moderate carbers because we don't often eat 250-300g of carbs in a day. I suspect something like 80-100g a day, plus increased activity may well offer some of the weight-loss benefits without the ketotic downside (though that is a complete guess of course).

Just my 2 pennorth.

 

[Robster65]

In order to lose weight you need to take in less calories and/or burn more off. Low carbing can help t2 control for obvious reasons but I don't understand how it would help a t1 except as a means of lowering calorie intake.

Do you know how many calories you consume daily ?

Rob

 

[lauraw1983]

I think quite a few of our members follow a relatively low-carb diet and there shouldn't be a problem with it as long as you are having your insulin. Ketones need insulin so that they can be processed out of your system properly, which is one of the reasons they can build up if you don't have sufficient insulin circulating (which would also be indicated by high blood sugar levels).

An advantage in low-carbing can also be that your insulin doses will be smaller and carb-counting (I have found) tends to be more accurate when doses are small. 🙂

Ooh ok I didn't know this about ketone removal/insulin. The first stage of this diet is pretty hardcore with low/no carbs, so how would I know what to inject? At the moment I only inject at mealtimes to cover the carbs iyswim? I'm doing 1u to 10g carbs, but I mostly underestimate it too slightly as it's not official advice I am following, I see the consultant in 2 weeks to ask more. I wont get on a DAFNE course until 12-18 months time.

I suppose in a way having my monitor which does ketones will be useful to keep an eye on it? I should probably know what levels of ketones are ok or too high, but I don't as I have never really had to test for them except right at the start when BS was still in high teens.

Would my BS go high alongside the ketones then, for sure?

 

[Robster65]

Ooh ok I didn't know this about ketone removal/insulin. The first stage of this diet is pretty hardcore with low/no carbs, so how would I know what to inject? At the moment I only inject at mealtimes to cover the carbs iyswim? I'm doing 1u to 10g carbs, but I mostly underestimate it too slightly as it's not official advice I am following, I see the consultant in 2 weeks to ask more. I wont get on a DAFNE course until 12-18 months time.

I suppose in a way having my monitor which does ketones will be useful to keep an eye on it? I should probably know what levels of ketones are ok or too high, but I don't as I have never really had to test for them except right at the start when BS was still in high teens.

Would my BS go high alongside the ketones then, for sure?

I would presonally steer clear of any diet that has no carbs for any period.

But certainly speak to your consultant/DSN first.

Rob

 

[lauraw1983]

I have met/come across several T1s online who have gone the low carb route, though this was more for improvements in control than weight loss.

I suspect moderation is a slightly more suitable/easier approach for a T1 because of the vaguaries of insulin action. If you go very low carb my understanding is that the body becomes increasingly adept at converting protein & fat to glucose (though this is a slower process) so it becomes harder to match insulin action to absorption because of the timescales involved. Additionally at very low carb levels insulin doses in 1u increments might become increasingly clumsy tools to work with.

Having said that many people here (myself included) would be branded low-moderate carbers because we don't often eat 250-300g of carbs in a day. I suspect something like 80-100g a day, plus increased activity may well offer some of the weight-loss benefits without the ketotic downside (though that is a complete guess of course).

Just my 2 pennorth.

It is partly to see if it improves my control too - I was reading about Dr Bernstein who had a very strict approach to his carb intake!

I wondered about the 1u increments being hard to judge against carbs too, so thought I may have to try to have a small fixed amount with each meal too.

It wouldn't be that hardcore once I have lost the weight I need to, it's just that this is a quicker weight loss method, and after I get to where I want to be I already realise I need to eat lower carb than I used to pre-diagnosis!!! There will be more balance further on (which the book suggests anyway), but the first stage is v low carb.

 

[imtrying]

Don't forget sometimes you may be forced to take carbs (e.g. hypo) so if the diet initially depends on absolutely no carbs, you may be setting yourself up to fail before you've even started.

Lower carbs does tend to help with weight loss (as far as I know) just due to how much people eat when eating carbs. To me most people cut it out so they stop feeling 'full' and bloated, and a way of reducing calories!

I would suggest you speak to your DSN before committing to anything. And they'll be able to say if it's safe, or what you may need to do to make it safe.

Good luck with your weight loss whatever you end up doing 🙂

 

[lauraw1983]

Don't forget sometimes you may be forced to take carbs (e.g. hypo) so if the diet initially depends on absolutely no carbs, you may be setting yourself up to fail before you've even started.

Lower carbs does tend to help with weight loss (as far as I know) just due to how much people eat when eating carbs. To me most people cut it out so they stop feeling 'full' and bloated, and a way of reducing calories!

I would suggest you speak to your DSN before committing to anything. And they'll be able to say if it's safe, or what you may need to do to make it safe.

Good luck with your weight loss whatever you end up doing 🙂

Yeah I know re; hypos it is different and I need to take carbs then. Hey ho. I couldn't do NO carb, it is low carb though. Perhaps I need to amend it for me slightly.

I have asked the DSN about it before and got the line that "everyone needs carbs everyday" - not really helpful. I need quicker results than the traditional cutting calories way and everything has been rather set back the past few months so I need to get moving with it!!! Lol. Low carb diets have often been at he middle of much debate I suppose, with people on both sides of the fence so it's a hard one to get much sense out of any medical people about.

Thank you x

 

[Northerner]

...I suppose in a way having my monitor which does ketones will be useful to keep an eye on it? I should probably know what levels of ketones are ok or too high, but I don't as I have never really had to test for them except right at the start when BS was still in high teens.

Would my BS go high alongside the ketones then, for sure?

No, you wouldn't expect high BG levels if you were low-carbing and covering what carbs you are eating with insulin. It would probably be a waste of ketone test strips too to test for them when your BG is normal.

Something to bear in mind also is that carbs are the easiest form for our bodies to get energy, and many people who suddenly cut right back on them can feel very lethargic or even ill until their bodies get used to the change of diet.

 

[Robster65]

I suspect that's why you lose weight initially, because you can't metabolise all that's going in. You end up flushing a certain amount of calories through your kidneys until your body readjusts, then I would imagine it's much the same as eating carbs.

I'd like to know the science behind it before I embarked on it. I don't like quick weight loss programmes.

Rob

 

[Northerner]

Just came across this article, which you may find interesting 🙂

http://asweetlife.org/a-sweet-life-...c-diet-and-peter-attias-war-on-insulin/24184/

 

[Robster65]

Just came across this article, which you may find interesting 🙂

http://asweetlife.org/a-sweet-life-...c-diet-and-peter-attias-war-on-insulin/24184/

That is interesting indeed. I'm still very dubious since this man is a marathon runner and obviously has a very efficient metabolism with no energy waste at all.

I'm also dubious because no mainstream medical people, other than those affiliated with Gary Taubes. I realise that paradigms are hard to shift but I would have expected a bit more noise about it by now if it was that clear cut. He makes a lot of proclamations in that article about how the conventional thinking is all wrong but surely there's not a small, enlightened group who can see it for what it is and the rest are just stupid ?

Not dismissing it. Just suspicious of their agenda.🙂

Rob

 

[lauraw1983]

That is interesting indeed. I'm still very dubious since this man is a marathon runner and obviously has a very efficient metabolism with no energy waste at all.

I'm also dubious because no mainstream medical people, other than those affiliated with Gary Taubes. I realise that paradigms are hard to shift but I would have expected a bit more noise about it by now if it was that clear cut. He makes a lot of proclamations in that article about how the conventional thinking is all wrong but surely there's not a small, enlightened group who can see it for what it is and the rest are just stupid ?

Not dismissing it. Just suspicious of their agenda.🙂

Rob

Thanks Alan, that is really interesting reading! It addresses what I wondered about ketogenic state and DKA.

Rob - I guess I am quite cynical of the medical world sometimes too though - I don't always think they always have the best answers to things, especially when restricted by NHS budgets. You only have to experience the difference between private and NHS to see that...don't get me wrong, I am very proud of the NHS in this country but it doesn't mean people are not let down by it or given incorrect information.

I have had some shocking advice in the past (mostly related to pregnancy/baby things as that's been fairly recently) and they are not always right.

It is interesting - ultimately I want this weight gone, and don't have time for 1-2lbs a week right now, since diabetes diagnosis has had me all over the place for months now! Who knows, I may feel rubbish on it, time shall tell. I need to buy in all the bits and bobs I need anyway. If I need to adapt it for me slightly then I shall do....can only try!

Maintaining will be a lot less strict.

 

[trophywench]

This is a PITA, but you do have to also ensure that you continue to eat enough (calories, trace elements) otherwise your body will just say, oh we have entered a time of starvation, have we? - therefore I must conserve ALL my body fat. Gee thanks, body.

There's a balance somewhere. Hope you find it!

 

[lauraw1983]

This is a PITA, but you do have to also ensure that you continue to eat enough (calories, trace elements) otherwise your body will just say, oh we have entered a time of starvation, have we? - therefore I must conserve ALL my body fat. Gee thanks, body.

There's a balance somewhere. Hope you find it!

Yep the book covers how to work out your calorie requirement for your height/weight too. Easier to do if you can eat cheese etc more freely...

And you take supplements alongside too to ensure you are not missing out on essential vitamins/minerals too in the earlier stages.

 

[imtrying]

sounds like lots of hard work lol but you sound determined!! Good luck hun, hope it goes well.

Maybe you could share your thoughts afterwards? or even do a blog whilst you're on it??