Too tight control?

[Inka]

4 or more? 3 and you'll probably hit a tree!

Or kill someone…

 

[CliffH]

I think this is one of those situations where we just have to accept that different people are happy having different approaches within the same rules and guidance.

If @Kol chooses to aim to always stay above 5 for a little extra ‘wiggle room’ that’s fine.

Lucy’s autism can make these differences harder to understand, and the questioning is more about trying to work things out I think.

I'm not sure that Lucy's autism is relevant to this: I'm neurotypical and I wouldn't want to be restricted to never driving if I'm between 4 and 5.

As far as I'm aware there's no evidence to suggest that a driver at 5.1 is safer than a driver at 4.9 and I bet that non-diabetics who drive at night are often below 5. If we're not careful, it will become illegal to drive below 5.0 just for the sake of a cute rhyme.

 

[Lucyr]

I'm not sure that Lucy's autism is relevant to this: I'm neurotypical and I wouldn't want to be restricted to never driving if I'm between 4 and 5.

Exactly. Non diabetics drive in the 4s all the time. So long as I know I’m not about to go hypo and have taken precautions eg checking libre arrow, fingerpricking, making sure I have no hypo symptoms, having a snack, setting the libre alarm a bit lower so it goes off again if I drop, then I don’t think it’s an autistic misunderstanding I think that it’s genuinely safe to drive then.

Remember that no one with hypo unawareness should ever be driving too, so everyone driving should get symptoms of bg does drop below 4 and so would pull over before any issues.

 

[Standup]

As always I think 'it depends...' I don't drive or set off below 5.6 but being type 3c my readings can change quite quickly.

4.5 feels very low to me but if I'm at 4.5 with a downward arrow it means I'm probably going to be in the 3s a couple of minutes later.

 

[CliffH]

As always I think 'it depends...' I don't drive or set off below 5.6 but being type 3c my readings can change quite quickly.

4.5 feels very low to me but if I'm at 4.5 with a downward arrow it means I'm probably going to be in the 3s a couple of minutes later.

I spend much of my life bumping along around 5.6 and drive all the time at that level. However, my Type 1 is well controlled and predictable in terms of my responses to carbs and insulin.

 

[CliffH]

As always I think 'it depends...' I don't drive or set off below 5.6 but being type 3c my readings can change quite quickly.

4.5 feels very low to me but if I'm at 4.5 with a downward arrow it means I'm probably going to be in the 3s a couple of minutes later.

I think this is a good example of how we owe it to ourselves to not allow specific individuals' unfortunate circumstances to lead to 'mission creep' for insulin users in general.

In this thread, we've now got 5.6 as a lowest perceived 'safe' level for driving - which I'd argue would only apply to a tiny minority of insulin users. However, the next thing we know, 'the authorities' will see this thread and say, "5.6 and you can drive out into the sticks" 🙄.

 

[Standup]

I think this is a good example of how we owe it to ourselves to not allow specific individuals' unfortunate circumstances to lead to 'mission creep' for insulin users in general.

In this thread, we've now got 5.6 as a lowest perceived 'safe' level for driving - which I'd argue would only apply to a tiny minority of insulin users. However, the next thing we know, 'the authorities' will see this thread and say, "5.6 and you can drive out into the sticks" 🙄.

Accepting I'm very much a minority case its the sudden changes in BG rather than the actual level itself. I can function perfectly well in the 4s but I know how quickly my levels can change within 3 hours of an insulin shot - that's a whole different challenge. Considering many medical practitioners don't know about type 3c and/or brittle diabetes I'd be surprised or rather concerned if I became the benchmark

 

[Lucyr]

Accepting I'm very much a minority case its the sudden changes in BG rather than the actual level itself. I can function perfectly well in the 4s but I know how quickly my levels can change within 3 hours of an insulin shot - that's a whole different challenge. Considering many medical practitioners don't know about type 3c and/or brittle diabetes I'd be surprised or rather concerned if I became the benchmark

Knowing your own needs and deciding for yourself is fine and is very different to someone further up the thread saying I shouldn’t be giving people lifts if I drive in the 4s.

 

[CliffH]

Knowing your own needs and deciding for yourself is fine and is very different to someone further up the thread saying I shouldn’t be giving people lifts if I drive in the 4s.

I used to have a sports car (as part of my mid-life crisis that's over now) and found it quite handy that I could only ever give one person at a time a lift - and then only if that person were quite small and agile!

 

[helli]

I have said before that these rules are too simplistic . They don't take into consideration insulin on board and when you last ate.
I am safer to drive at 4.5 with no IoB than 5.5 with 3 units of IoB. And whether I ate 5 hours ago or 5 minutes ago makes a difference.
Hey, you could also add that driving after exercise is different to driving after slobbing in front of the telly. 5.5 after a 45 minute spin session could mean a suddenly drop.is imminent unless I had suspended my basal for the class.

I appreciate the rules have to be relatively simplified because we are all different.
It highlights the most important thing is hypo sensitivity rather than these arbitrary BG level rules.
Yes, I have started driving with a BG in the 4s but I had just eaten and had no insulin on board so knew my BG was going to rise.

There is no.rule about high BG but I know not to drive when my BG is higher than 12 because it makes me sluggish. It reminds me of reading how flu can impact your reaction times as much as alcohol but there are no rules about driving when unwell.
Again, down to personal awareness of safety to drive.

 

[Wendal]

Interesting discussion and good to have a balanced and informed discussion.
I spent an awful lot of time driving so several hours a day mainly motorways and I am essentially in agreement with Helli that the most important thing to me is my awareness of going high or low.
It is about personal awareness of how safe you are too drive and of course we are all guided by measuring our BG.
However as others have said that can change quickly dependent on many factors so it is the self realisation of it dropping or increasing by noticing physiological changes and then taking any remedial action.
As an insulin using diabetic we have a specific challenge to manage our BG levels but being safe to drive can encompass other health challenges either ongoing or temporary so we need to recognise the need to manage any of these challenges in a safe and effective manner.
Have a great Xmas

 

[CliffH]

Interesting discussion and good to have a balanced and informed discussion.
I spent an awful lot of time driving so several hours a day mainly motorways and I am essentially in agreement with Helli that the most important thing to me is my awareness of going high or low.
It is about personal awareness of how safe you are too drive and of course we are all guided by measuring our BG.
However as others have said that can change quickly dependent on many factors so it is the self realisation of it dropping or increasing by noticing physiological changes and then taking any remedial action.
As an insulin using diabetic we have a specific challenge to manage our BG levels but being safe to drive can encompass other health challenges either ongoing or temporary so we need to recognise the need to manage any of these challenges in a safe and effective manner.
Have a great Xmas

... and as someone pointed out in an earlier thread, it may be that our enforced need to be aware of our blood sugar because of insulin use may make us generally more aware of our fitness (or unfitness) to drive. In my own case, I didn't start taking insulin until I was in my 50s and before then I never thought much about my fitness to drive: if I felt okay then I drove!

 

[Standup]

I only got around to taking my test in my mid 50s just before I became diabetic so I'm probably an overly cautious driver. I don't even like driving if I've not had a good nights sleep but then I also don't like roundabouts, parking, reversing or having the radio on.

 

[CliffH]

I only got around to taking my test in my mid 50s just before I became diabetic so I'm probably an overly cautious driver. I don't even like driving if I've not had a good nights sleep but then I also don't like roundabouts, parking, reversing or having the radio on.

Better over-cautious than under-cautious.

 

[Kol]

and I bet that non-diabetics who drive at night are often below 5.

Yes, they have a working pancreas that does an amazing job at regulating BG

 

[Kol]

so everyone driving should get symptoms of bg does drop below 4 and so would pull over before any issues.

Not so easy on Motorways, infact quite inconvenient and potentialy dangerous

 

[Lucyr]

Not so easy on Motorways, infact quite inconvenient and potentialy dangerous

Eat the fast acting carbs that you should have within reach at all times and take the next exit or services. Good hypo awareness and sensible use of alarms means you’ll stop before there’s any danger.

 

[Wendal]

Again am with Lucy on this one as I find motorways are much easier to find safe stopping places even though I live only a mile from a smart motorway which can appear “ unsafe”.I actually find driving on motorways much safer as can predict others actions much more readily and take evasive action if required.

 

[Kol]

Anyway last thoughts from me really, if you are happy driving in the 4s have at it, just because you can it's up to you.
I'll be waiting till 5

 

[CliffH]

Again am with Lucy on this one as I find motorways are much easier to find safe stopping places even though I live only a mile from a smart motorway which can appear “ unsafe”.I actually find driving on motorways much safer as can predict others actions much more readily and take evasive action if required.

I tend to be with Lucy on most things: the Sage of Diabetes UK