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Another 75 year old newbie.

Status
This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.

Dodie

New Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 3c
Hi! My name is Dodie and like Richard, I became type T3C last September when my pancreas was removed (along with some other bits of my digestive system). Although I would especially like to talk to any other T3C diabetics, I would welcome help and advice from anyone who, like me, had great difficulty in learning to cope with day to day problems such as suddenly feeling unsteady or heart beat racing and also being absolutely terrified of a Hypo so much so that as soon as I notice my glucose levels dropping to 7 or 6, I am reaching for a glucose drink or jelly babies, which of course sends my levels to far the other way.
Many thanks for any advice Dodie
 
Hi Dodie, welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about your recent diagnosis. I'm not a T3C, but I'm aware that there others on the forum who post reasonably often, so hopefully one of them will connect with you.
Best wishes, Sarah
 
Hello Dodie @Dodie and welcome to a select club.

I had pancreatic cancer and in Feb 20 I surrendered my pancreas during a Whipple procedure and gained instant diabetes. I, like you, found it all very challenging: post op recovery, then adjuvant chemo (just in case ....) and it was only late Oct 20 that I started to even think clearly.

BUT, there is some light at the end of this tunnel. Now, 2 yrs on I'm still learning, yet feel much more in control than previously. It would help if at this stage you could tell us a little more, for a starter:

Why was your pancreas removed? Mine was because of cancer, but others often as a result of increasingly difficult pancreatitis.
What insulins are you taking for your basal and bolus? I was started on Levermir 2x daily for my basal and NovoRapid 3x daily for my bolus, with a very rare corrective dose when really high.
Are you carb counting or just following a predefined formula given to you for insulin dosing? I started carb counting in late Oct 20 and that became a great help in better management of my Diabetes Mellis (DM).
Do you have Libre 2 or just dependent on finger pricking to find out your BG? If you do have Libre 2 have you read some of the observations on this site about the good and not so good aspects of Libre 2? If you are only finger pricking at what frequency? I was given Libre 2 in Feb 20, just after the improved availability on the NHS. A further huge help in gaining control; but I'm pleased that I had a year doing the traditional method of finger pricking only, since when Libre 2 glitches I'm relaxed about managing without it. I did my apprenticeship! I now have an extra app called Diabox on my phone which gives me a Continuous Glucose Monitoring (CGM) system - but that's for another time.
What reference material do you have access to, apart from this site - which is a great place to start? Have you found the Learning zone here at the Red tag at the top of this page?

Have you found the book by Gary Scheiner "Think Like a Pancreas" ? He writes unashamedly for insulin dependant diabetics and despite being in America takes the trouble to convert US numbers into European units. I found this book exceedingly helpful.

Are you under a Hospital based Diabetes Clinic and do you have the name and contact details of a Diabetes Specialised Nurse (DSN) who you can reach out to for technical queries? This is not the Nurse who might deal with diabetes patients at your GP's Surgery; it is highly unlikely that a GP surgery Nurse will know enough to help you with T3c aspects; almost all of their patients are Type 2s with very different problems. It is essential that as a T3c you are "nestled" within a Hospital Diabetes Specialist Team; in theory this will include a named Endocrinologist, but in practice at this stage you need a DSN who can interpret your fortnightly logbook readings and adjust you're insulin dosing regime. You will (should) get an Endo consult at about the 6 month point after your op; but I guess the timings are vulnerable to Covid backlogs. But if you have a DSN and there is something important to be reviewed that DSN can make that happen for you.

I completely understand your worry about going hypo. It's not nice, but it is manageable and I doubt there is even one insulin dependent diabetic who has not been there. But for now staying 6 or above is fine, as you get the measure of things and gain confidence in what you are doing.

I didn't have any unsteadiness problems, but if this is a DM side effect there will be someone on this forum who can comment. I did have some heart issues and before my op in Feb 20 I had a rigorous review to confirm I was fit for surgery. One of the many factors that can affect Blood Glucose is stress - all types, ie stress from problems and worries, emotional stress and medical stress. Stress plays havoc with your BG and I now try to do everything I can to relax (easy said, but ..) and keep calm even when my BG is all over the place. I even did some mindfulness investigation, as a technique to keep myself calm and less stressed.

Regarding the rebounds into hyper zone - this does happen a lot; not least because with no pancreas you - personally - have to manage most aspects of: your digestion; your carb intake; your insulin dosing; and your glucose response. You don't even have the hormone that receives instructions from your brain and then tells your liver to open the glucose store when you have too much insulin in your blood stream. So it has taken me a while to gain some control and reduce the "yo-yo" effect with my BG. One initial piece of advice is to try not to over-react. When my BG is falling at c.6 I eat a small (non-chocolate) biscuit: perhaps 1x hobnob =9 gms CHO, or 1x Nairns biscuit =6gms CHO, or similar; at this stage not a jelly baby. At c.5 and falling I might take c.10-15 gms CHO (still no chocolate - which slows down the digestive process) and I keep the JBs for below 4.5 - ie Urgent response. I needed to experiment, gently and slowly, to find what works for me.

I'm assuming you are taking Creon and I will take 1x Creon capsule with each snack. I had digestive problems for almost 2 yrs, which happily seem now to have receded. However, the consequence was that although I was rigorously carb counting from Nov 20, for almost a year I wasn't fully absorbing what I was eating; so my carb count was generally correct but I was frequently overdosing with insulin!

I'll stop here for now. Please ask any question that occurs to you, there will be someone on this forum who can offer a response. Some of your challenges are more specific to Type 3c, but by no means all. If you feel OK about answering my barrage of questions to you, that would help us understand where you have got to so far and allow us to provide more specific answers.

Right now, this is really daunting - or it certainly was for me; diabetes is complicated, confusing and contradictory and a few months in I still found it frightening. That fear has rescinded as I learnt more about what was going on: "Knowledge dispels Fear".

Good luck.
 
Hi @Dodie and welcome from another Type 3c. I only have a little pancreas left following pancreatitis.

I was very worried about hypos after having a few when I was in hospital for the pancreatitis (before I was managing my diabetes for myself). I was doing a lot of blood tests when I came out to try to avoid them. Being told that I would not be producing much glucagon to raise my blood sugar if it went low didn't help my confidence with low blood sugars! I've since been told that glucagon is only part of the body's response to low blood sugar and the rest of the response should still be working which made me feel a lot better.
It took me quite a while to feel a bit more confident with hypos. I still try hard to avoid them but taking a couple of dextrose tablets if glucose levels are heading down often allows me to avoid them without shooting too high later on.

Having the Freestyle Libre 2 on prescription has been incredibly helpful for me with doing this. During the day I have the low alarm on 5.6 which usually allows me to deal with dropping levels before I reach hypo levels.

Do you have Libre? I'm assuming you're taking pancreatic enzymes (eg Creon). It can take a while to sort the dosage of the enzymes. Juggling the Creon and insulin can be interesting!
Are you being seen by a hospital team for your diabetes?

It's still pretty early days since your operation. Hoping things continue to improve for you. I'm still being reminded that it takes a long time to recover and I went into hospital 3 years ago.
Any other questions feel free to ask.
 
Dodie, I've just done a search using the search tool at the top right of this page for: unsteadiness.
Lots of comments, including the obvious one of early hypo symptoms.. !!! I should have joined those dots! Have a look there and see if there is anything to help.
 
Hi! My name is Dodie and like Richard, I became type T3C last September when my pancreas was removed (along with some other bits of my digestive system). Although I would especially like to talk to any other T3C diabetics, I would welcome help and advice from anyone who, like me, had great difficulty in learning to cope with day to day problems such as suddenly feeling unsteady or heart beat racing and also being absolutely terrified of a Hypo so much so that as soon as I notice my glucose levels dropping to 7 or 6, I am reaching for a glucose drink or jelly babies, which of course sends my levels to far the other way.
Many thanks for any advice Dodie
 
Hello young man,
Welcome to the forum.
I'm Andy, I'm 84 years young, disabled with a genetic rare neurological disease and diabetic for some14 years. Every time I log in to this website I learn something new. I must tell my wife about the remark the previous guy made to you about remaining relaxed. My wife often says that if I was any more laid-back, I'd be horizontal all the time. My wife sweetens me up every time I have a hypo because I have never been aware of going into one, being wheelchair-bound. I'm about to fit my third Libre sensor which is great for preventing hypos. I can take my own readings anytime and little arrows beside the reading indicate whether the reading is going up or down. I used to have persistent high readings around 32 but within a week of fitting a sensor they were down to 6 or 7. I merely had to stop drinking anything that was sweetened with sweetener. It was amazing to see which foods sent my reading upwards.

Take care.
cheers
Andy
 
Welcome to the forum @Dodie from a type 1

It is understandable to be concerned about hypos, but you will gradually develop the confidence to know your own symptoms for these and to feel less panicky about them.
Some things that might help with that
  • Test as much as you need to. ‘Normal levels‘ are between 4 and 7, so if you are in there you are okay, although you might want to lift the bottom number so that you are further from hypo levels (below 4).
  • Have hypo treatments everywhere. We have a pot of jelly babies in every room, and I have a stash in every bag. By the bed I have a small carton of juice for the pesky night hypos.
  • Having a Libre sensor helps LOADS, as it not only shows you your current glucose levels but also shows you the direction in which your levels are going. So a 5 with arrows down would prompt me to go for some glucose, but a 5 and no arrow would not prompt any action
    It would be worth talking to your team about this
  • Carb counting meals and adjusting your bolus also makes things more flexible
Contact your team and let them know how you are feeling.

Keep in touch on here and ask any questions you have. There is lots of experience to tap into on here and we ‘get it’. Ask anything that arises. Nothing is considered silly.
 
Hello Dodie @Dodie and welcome to a select club.

I had pancreatic cancer and in Feb 20 I surrendered my pancreas during a Whipple procedure and gained instant diabetes. I, like you, found it all very challenging: post op recovery, then adjuvant chemo (just in case ....) and it was only late Oct 20 that I started to even think clearly.

BUT, there is some light at the end of this tunnel. Now, 2 yrs on I'm still learning, yet feel much more in control than previously. It would help if at this stage you could tell us a little more, for a starter:

Why was your pancreas removed? Mine was because of cancer, but others often as a result of increasingly difficult pancreatitis.
What insulins are you taking for your basal and bolus? I was started on Levermir 2x daily for my basal and NovoRapid 3x daily for my bolus, with a very rare corrective dose when really high.
Are you carb counting or just following a predefined formula given to you for insulin dosing? I started carb counting in late Oct 20 and that became a great help in better management of my Diabetes Mellis (DM).
Do you have Libre 2 or just dependent on finger pricking to find out your BG? If you do have Libre 2 have you read some of the observations on this site about the good and not so good aspects of Libre 2? If you are only finger pricking at what frequency? I was given Libre 2 in Feb 20, just after the improved availability on the NHS. A further huge help in gaining control; but I'm pleased that I had a year doing the traditional method of finger pricking only, since when Libre 2 glitches I'm relaxed about managing without it. I did my apprenticeship! I now have an extra app called Diabox on my phone which gives me a Continuous Glucose Monitoring (CGM) system - but that's for another time.
What reference material do you have access to, apart from this site - which is a great place to start? Have you found the Learning zone here at the Red tag at the top of this page?

Have you found the book by Gary Scheiner "Think Like a Pancreas" ? He writes unashamedly for insulin dependant diabetics and despite being in America takes the trouble to convert US numbers into European units. I found this book exceedingly helpful.

Are you under a Hospital based Diabetes Clinic and do you have the name and contact details of a Diabetes Specialised Nurse (DSN) who you can reach out to for technical queries? This is not the Nurse who might deal with diabetes patients at your GP's Surgery; it is highly unlikely that a GP surgery Nurse will know enough to help you with T3c aspects; almost all of their patients are Type 2s with very different problems. It is essential that as a T3c you are "nestled" within a Hospital Diabetes Specialist Team; in theory this will include a named Endocrinologist, but in practice at this stage you need a DSN who can interpret your fortnightly logbook readings and adjust you're insulin dosing regime. You will (should) get an Endo consult at about the 6 month point after your op; but I guess the timings are vulnerable to Covid backlogs. But if you have a DSN and there is something important to be reviewed that DSN can make that happen for you.

I completely understand your worry about going hypo. It's not nice, but it is manageable and I doubt there is even one insulin dependent diabetic who has not been there. But for now staying 6 or above is fine, as you get the measure of things and gain confidence in what you are doing.

I didn't have any unsteadiness problems, but if this is a DM side effect there will be someone on this forum who can comment. I did have some heart issues and before my op in Feb 20 I had a rigorous review to confirm I was fit for surgery. One of the many factors that can affect Blood Glucose is stress - all types, ie stress from problems and worries, emotional stress and medical stress. Stress plays havoc with your BG and I now try to do everything I can to relax (easy said, but ..) and keep calm even when my BG is all over the place. I even did some mindfulness investigation, as a technique to keep myself calm and less stressed.

Regarding the rebounds into hyper zone - this does happen a lot; not least because with no pancreas you - personally - have to manage most aspects of: your digestion; your carb intake; your insulin dosing; and your glucose response. You don't even have the hormone that receives instructions from your brain and then tells your liver to open the glucose store when you have too much insulin in your blood stream. So it has taken me a while to gain some control and reduce the "yo-yo" effect with my BG. One initial piece of advice is to try not to over-react. When my BG is falling at c.6 I eat a small (non-chocolate) biscuit: perhaps 1x hobnob =9 gms CHO, or 1x Nairns biscuit =6gms CHO, or similar; at this stage not a jelly baby. At c.5 and falling I might take c.10-15 gms CHO (still no chocolate - which slows down the digestive process) and I keep the JBs for below 4.5 - ie Urgent response. I needed to experiment, gently and slowly, to find what works for me.

I'm assuming you are taking Creon and I will take 1x Creon capsule with each snack. I had digestive problems for almost 2 yrs, which happily seem now to have receded. However, the consequence was that although I was rigorously carb counting from Nov 20, for almost a year I wasn't fully absorbing what I was eating; so my carb count was generally correct but I was frequently overdosing with insulin!

I'll stop here for now. Please ask any question that occurs to you, there will be someone on this forum who can offer a response. Some of your challenges are more specific to Type 3c, but by no means all. If you feel OK about answering my barrage of questions to you, that would help us understand where you have got to so far and allow us to provide more specific answers.

Right now, this is really daunting - or it certainly was for me; diabetes is complicated, confusing and contradictory and a few months in I still found it frightening. That fear has rescinded as I learnt more about what was going on: "Knowledge dispels Fear".

Good luck.
Thank you for your comprehensive reply. I am working my way through it and will get back to you. Some of your comments have already made me feel a bit more positive.
D
 
Thank you for your comprehensive reply. I am working my way through it and will get back to you. Some of your comments have already made me feel a bit more positive.
D
Dodie, absolutely fine. I asked a lot and did not expect you to do anything other than take some time.
 
Welcome to the forum @Dodie

Glad you are finding help and support here.

And yes it is perfectly normal to be a bit concerned about hypos. But try not to let the fear of them run too rampant. Running a little on the high side is fine too - diabetes is a slow moving foe 🙂

If you are frustrated by overtreating when fending off possible lows, perhaps it would help to try to discover an appropriate carb limit that works for you. Typically for a T1, a suggestion might be that 10g of carbs might raise blood glucose by 3mmol/L (though actual experiences vary). So if you were aiming for 8mmol/L from 6mmol/L you may only need 6 or 7g of carbs

As @Proud to be erratic says, it’s a matter of working out your own go-to treatments to nudge your BG upwards just enough 🙂
 
Hello @Dodie , I'm slightly concerned that my barrage of questions has driven you away, which was most definitely NOT my intention.
Could I make this easier and ask just one opening question: do you have Libre 2? Knowing the answer to this will allow me and other to focus their help and advice.
I look forward to hearing from you - if you want to reply. Absolutely no obligation. Roland
 
Hello @Dodie , I'm slightly concerned that my barrage of questions has driven you away, which was most definitely NOT my intention.
Could I make this easier and ask just one opening question: do you have Libre 2? Knowing the answer to this will allow me and other to focus their help and advice.
I look forward to hearing from you - if you want to reply. Absolutely no obligation. Roland
Hi Roland,
No you haven't put me of, just had a couple of what I call 'Off days'. I seem to be in a kind of loop at the moment, a few good days when I feel really well and back to my old happy go lucky self and then a few days of feeling unwell, with uncomfortable stomach cramps, headaches etc. I guess it is my body adjusting. Plus, being half term, had grandchildren here hogging the computer!
I do have a Libre 2 device. I have had it since December, 3 months after having my Pancreas removed. Although in some ways it has been a help, for example knowing which way my BG is heading, I have also found it a hindrance. I have found out that the readings are always higher than the finger prick which threw me to start with and it frequently loses the signal. Having said that my fingers aren't painful any more.
Some more information about me.
My pancreas was removed because whilst treating me for Gall Stones it was discovered that the ducts in my pancreas were very dilated and therefore there was a 1 in 3 chance could very likely turn cancerous. So I opted to have it removed along with gall bladder, bile duct and spleen. That was in September 2021. I am under the care of a hospital based diabetes team, really excellent, Over the time of discovering a gall bladder problem Dec 2020 I have lost 15kilos am now just 57 kilos and although steady at that weight I can't seem to put any more on. Would really like to be in the lower 60's. I am taking Creon the advice was 2 with snacks and 3 with main meal. Do sometimes wonder if they are the cause of my stomach cramps have asked about it and the jury is still out on that one.
I am on Novo Rapid at meal times and Lantus in the morning. ( originally it was Lantus at bedtime but the diabetes team recently changed it) I'm sorry to say my BG levels are usually in the teens, although I am working on getting them down.

Thank you for your help and support and sorry it took so long to reply
Dodie
 
Welcome to the forum @Dodie

Glad you are finding help and support here.

And yes it is perfectly normal to be a bit concerned about hypos. But try not to let the fear of them run too rampant. Running a little on the high side is fine too - diabetes is a slow moving foe 🙂

If you are frustrated by overtreating when fending off possible lows, perhaps it would help to try to discover an appropriate carb limit that works for you. Typically for a T1, a suggestion might be that 10g of carbs might raise blood glucose by 3mmol/L (though actual experiences vary). So if you were aiming for 8mmol/L from 6mmol/L you may only need 6 or 7g of carbs

As @Proud to be erratic says, it’s a matter of working out your own go-to treatments to nudge your BG upwards just enough 🙂
Thanks for that info, I will persevere
 
Hello young man,
Welcome to the forum.
I'm Andy, I'm 84 years young, disabled with a genetic rare neurological disease and diabetic for some14 years. Every time I log in to this website I learn something new. I must tell my wife about the remark the previous guy made to you about remaining relaxed. My wife often says that if I was any more laid-back, I'd be horizontal all the time. My wife sweetens me up every time I have a hypo because I have never been aware of going into one, being wheelchair-bound. I'm about to fit my third Libre sensor which is great for preventing hypos. I can take my own readings anytime and little arrows beside the reading indicate whether the reading is going up or down. I used to have persistent high readings around 32 but within a week of fitting a sensor they were down to 6 or 7. I merely had to stop drinking anything that was sweetened with sweetener. It was amazing to see which foods sent my reading upwards.

Take care.
cheers
Andy
Thanks for replying Andy. The nickname "Dodie" is misleading, I am actually an old lady! not offended at all though.
I am enormously grateful to all those who have responded to my original call for help and feel much more positive about being diabetic as a result.
 
Welcome to the forum @Dodie from a type 1

It is understandable to be concerned about hypos, but you will gradually develop the confidence to know your own symptoms for these and to feel less panicky about them.
Some things that might help with that
  • Test as much as you need to. ‘Normal levels‘ are between 4 and 7, so if you are in there you are okay, although you might want to lift the bottom number so that you are further from hypo levels (below 4).
  • Have hypo treatments everywhere. We have a pot of jelly babies in every room, and I have a stash in every bag. By the bed I have a small carton of juice for the pesky night hypos.
  • Having a Libre sensor helps LOADS, as it not only shows you your current glucose levels but also shows you the direction in which your levels are going. So a 5 with arrows down would prompt me to go for some glucose, but a 5 and no arrow would not prompt any action
    It would be worth talking to your team about this
  • Carb counting meals and adjusting your bolus also makes things more flexible
Contact your team and let them know how you are feeling.

Keep in touch on here and ask any questions you have. There is lots of experience to tap into on here and we ‘get it’. Ask anything that arises. Nothing is considered silly.
Many thanks for your reply. I have found the Forum useful already.
 
Hi Dodie, welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about your recent diagnosis. I'm not a T3C, but I'm aware that there others on the forum who post reasonably often, so hopefully one of them will connect with you.
Best wishes, Sarah
Many thanks Sarah
 
Hello @Dodie , I'm slightly concerned that my barrage of questions has driven you away, which was most definitely NOT my intention.
Could I make this easier and ask just one opening question: do you have Libre 2? Knowing the answer to this will allow me and other to focus their help and advice.
I look forward to hearing from you - if you want to reply. Absolutely no obligation. Roland
Hi @Dodie and welcome from another Type 3c. I only have a little pancreas left following pancreatitis.

I was very worried about hypos after having a few when I was in hospital for the pancreatitis (before I was managing my diabetes for myself). I was doing a lot of blood tests when I came out to try to avoid them. Being told that I would not be producing much glucagon to raise my blood sugar if it went low didn't help my confidence with low blood sugars! I've since been told that glucagon is only part of the body's response to low blood sugar and the rest of the response should still be working which made me feel a lot better.
It took me quite a while to feel a bit more confident with hypos. I still try hard to avoid them but taking a couple of dextrose tablets if glucose levels are heading down often allows me to avoid them without shooting too high later on.

Having the Freestyle Libre 2 on prescription has been incredibly helpful for me with doing this. During the day I have the low alarm on 5.6 which usually allows me to deal with dropping levels before I reach hypo levels.

Do you have Libre? I'm assuming you're taking pancreatic enzymes (eg Creon). It can take a while to sort the dosage of the enzymes. Juggling the Creon and insulin can be interesting!
Are you being seen by a hospital team for your diabetes?

It's still pretty early days since your operation. Hoping things continue to improve for you. I'm still being reminded that it takes a long time to recover and I went into hospital 3 years ago.
Any other questions feel free to ask.
Thanks for your reply. I am encouraged by the help I have got from the Forum especially finding out just how long it takes to adjust to being diabetic and expecially T3C
 
Status
This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.
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