Very worried Newbie

[Jogo1980]

Hello, I’m new to this forum and I really hope you can help me as I’m really worried about my dad.
He has been diabetic type 2 for about 5 years, he takes 2 Glucophage per day and doesn’t check his bloods regularly. He is 73, retired and walks 2-3 miles a day. He eats fairly healthily but does like a couple of glasses of red wine a week, and a greggs latte once a day as a treat. (He has not had any wine this week.)
2 days ago he started feeling thirstier than normal so he checked his bloods, the reading was 26 then the battery ran out of his metre. The next day the reading was 18, then this morning before breakfast it was 13. He rang the GP and is having bloods taken next week, but in the meantime was advised to take an extra glucophage at lunchtimes. His reading tonight 3 hours after food was 24, so I advised him to ring 111 for some advise, he is now waiting for a doctor to call him back, but I’m so worried I can’t sleep. I know he is worried too, and I’ve asked my mum to keep an eye on him throughout the night (he’s not a great sleeper) and told her to ring 999 if she notices that he seems confused on generally not himself. Am I right to be so worried? Any advice is greatly appreciated xxx

 

[Drummer]

Those are rather high numbers, but it depends on what your dad is eating and drinking during the day. A regular sized latte is 13gm of carbs, so not as high as some, but that would really cut into the food I could manage and still stay in range.
Can you give a normal day's menu, just to see what amount of carbs is involved?

 

[Jogo1980]

Those are rather high numbers, but it depends on what your dad is eating and drinking during the day. A regular sized latte is 13gm of carbs, so not as high as some, but that would really cut into the food I could manage and still stay in range.
Can you give a normal day's menu, just to see what amount of carbs is involved?

Thank you so much for your reply.
His food today was:

Breakfast: Museli with a handful of blueberries and a banana.

Lunch; A cheese sandwich with wholemeal bread

Dinner: A fish cake with savoury rice

snacks were 3 plain oak cakes

no latte’s today, just tea with no sugar and water

 

[Drummer]

Wow - although he is on carb reducing medication, those are high carb meals.
The numbers for his blood glucose are high, but it is no wonder at all.

 

[Jogo1980]

Thank you so much again for your reply. We really are not familiar with what diet he should be eating. He thought that as he doesn’t have any sweets or cakes he was on the right track. So carbs are the problem not so much sugar, or both? I’m so confused

 

[Drummer]

Thank you so much again for your reply. We really are not familiar with what diet he should be eating. He thought that as he doesn’t have any sweets or cakes he was on the right track. So carbs are the problem not so much sugar, or both? I’m so confused

For type two diabetics it is all about the carbohydrates, the sugars and starches.
The muesli is grain, with sugars from the fruit.
The bread is more grain, but the cheese would be fine.
Rice - grain, and the fishcake will probably have potato or other starch in it, and oat cakes, more grain, I'm afraid.

 

[Jogo1980]

Oh my goodness, the GP has never told him that he’s eating the wrong things, yet she asked him earlier and her advice was to give up the banana. Thank you so much for your help, I will now research the correct diet as we wait to hear from the 111 doctor. Many thanks again x

 

[Drummer]

There are a lot of suitable meals and menus available - but you will have to check as some carbs are required to counter the medication your father is taking.
On my low carb diet, I don't need to have any medication, but I eat meat, fish eggs or cheese, and have low carb veges with them - so cauliflower cheese which is cauliflower and cheese, some seasoning and that's it.
I eat few carbs, but healthy fresh salads, or frozen stir fry. I chop fresh veges to make stews, make curries and serve them with chopped cauliflower, bubble and squeak made from what I find in the fridge and mashed swede, and a couple of eggs beaten in, fried in the fat from the bacon.

 

[Jogo1980]

There are a lot of suitable meals and menus available - but you will have to check as some carbs are required to counter the medication your father is taking.
On my low carb diet, I don't need to have any medication, but I eat meat, fish eggs or cheese, and have low carb veges with them - so cauliflower cheese which is cauliflower and cheese, some seasoning and that's it.
I eat few carbs, but healthy fresh salads, or frozen stir fry. I chop fresh veges to make stews, make curries and serve them with chopped cauliflower, bubble and squeak made from what I find in the fridge and mashed swede, and a couple of eggs beaten in, fried in the fat from the bacon.

Thank you, that’s brilliant advice, I will definitely pass on your suggestions. All our gp said was ‘everything in moderation’!

 

[zuludog]

Hello JOGO and welcome to the forum

Yes, your Dad's blood sugar levels are high, and it does look like he's eating too much carbohydrate; you are right to be concerned
I think it would help you both if you had a very simple biology lesson
As with most things, it can be as complicated as you like, but this is just the minimum you need to understand what's going on

All carbohydrates are made from the simple sugar, glucose. It can be just this simple, basic molecule on its own, or the glucose molecules can be joined together to form more complex molecules, and eventually if enough of them are joined together they form starch
When you eat carbs they are broken down in the digestive system back into glucose molecules, and these pass through the gut wall into the bloodstream, then they are carried around the body and into the cells for further use
However, the glucose cannot get into the cells on its own, it needs the hormone insulin to get it from the blood, across the cell walls, and into the cells
Insulin is made in the pancreas, and it also passes into the blood, and transfers the glucose as described

Well that's what happens in a healthy person
Some people do not make enough insulin to carry out that transfer, so the glucose just builds up in the blood, and it is this accumulation of glucose that caused the problems we call diabetes, such as the early symptoms of thirst, tiredness, and confusion, and if diabetes is not treated there will eventually be more serious effects

You can compensate for the lack of natural insulin by taking medication or injecting insulin into the bloodstream, but the best way to reduce the build up of glucose is by reducing on the amount of carbs that you eat in the first place.

Note that ALL carbs produce glucose, not just the obvious sweet ones
So yes, you should cut out things like sweets, cakes, biscuits & puddings, but also things like rice, pasta, spuds, pies, pizzas, bread, cereals etc.

In your Dad's example there are carbs from the muesli, bread, banana, rice & oatcakes - more or less every meal in fact!

So with the little lesson in mind you need to look at his meals and diet, and cut out carbs

It might not be necessary to cut out absolutely every thing as most diabetics can tolerate a bit of carb, but to start with be fairly ruthless, and, I'm afraid, do more blood testing to see what affects him and what he can cope with

Have a look at Living With Diabetes on the Home Page, there are recipes, suggestions, and meal plans; Learning Zone, the orange - red box at the top of this page; past Threads in Newbies & Food Sections on this forum.
You could also Search YouTube for diabetic meals, recipes, and diets, but as with anything on YT you need to be a bit cautious, and there are so many videos it can be overwhelming, but you will see the sorts of things that can be done

It's not all bad news though, we can see that your Dad is trying to eat a healthy diet, but he didn't realise the significance of carbs
You can live well with diabetes, and there are lots of low carb ideas & recipes, but you do need to be careful, and there is no holiday, you need to be aware all the time

Try these changes, measure blood glucose more often, and see how you go on
Your Dad might find that as he controls things more carefully he will feel better

Just one thing; if your Dad reduces his carb intake and goes on his daily walk he might get a hypo, so take some sugary food or sweets, like liquorice allsorts or jelly babies -

 

[Drummer]

With those high numbers plus medication, you need to reduce the carbs a little and test, as - although it might seem a good idea to go for normal numbers as fast as possible, each person needs to find the balance of carb intake and the resulting blood glucose - settling down gradually for a soft landing not doing a nose dive into the ground.

 

[Docb]

Hi @Jogo1980. I'm a bit older than your dad but a couple of years ago when my BG went a bit haywire I was getting spot readings not too dissimilar to him, also despite being on metformin (Glucophage). You and he are doing all the right things - get to the GP, get bloods taken, see what the results say and work out the best treatment regime. Guarding against something needing urgent treatment by calling 111 for advice was a good idea and prompting your mum to call 999 if things go really awry is sensible as an absolute back stop.

In practical terms, his GP should get the test results a day after the bloods are taken so that's the time to get onto the surgery asking for the results. I would expect your GP to have ordered a range of blood tests and looking at them in the round will give the best forward plan. Don't be surprised to see a change in medication as a recommendation.

In the meantime you and he (and your mum) might have a look at his diet with the objective of reducing the carbohydrate he is consuming. In very simple terms, carbohydrate in food (and that is all carbohydrate not just simple carbohydrates like sugar) is turned into glucose in the gut and this ends up in the blood stream. So, cutting back on carbohydrate is one way of reducing blood glucose. Read around the forum and check out the learning zone above and you will get the idea.

By the way, with a combination of a reduced carbohydrate diet, loosing a little bit of weight, getting a bit more exercise and taking pills brought my blood glucose back into a normal range. What worked for me ought to work for your dad. All being well, things will be back where they should be in a few months.

PS I have deleted your duplicate thread in the general messageboard, that way all replies to this post will be kept in one place.

 

[NotPink]

There are a lot of suitable meals and menus available - but you will have to check as some carbs are required to counter the medication your father is taking.
On my low carb diet, I don't need to have any medication, but I eat meat, fish eggs or cheese, and have low carb veges with them - so cauliflower cheese which is cauliflower and cheese, some seasoning and that's it.
I eat few carbs, but healthy fresh salads, or frozen stir fry. I chop fresh veges to make stews, make curries and serve them with chopped cauliflower, bubble and squeak made from what I find in the fridge and mashed swede, and a couple of eggs beaten in, fried in the fat from the bacon.

Interested in the curries. I love curry and have not had one since being pre D2. I thought that the spices...eg cumin turmeric, etc were all root/carb related and avoided them. Is this so?

 

[zuludog]

Interested in the curries. I love curry and have not had one since being pre D2. I thought that the spices...eg cumin turmeric, etc were all root/carb related and avoided them. Is this so?

Yes it is true that curry spices are plant based, but not all of them contain much carbohydrate, and they are added at such low levels that they won't contribute much carb at all
And if you make a typical curry sauce based on meat or fish, & veg there won't be much carb from that either
If you make a veg curry containing potatoes, beans/pulses/legumes there will be carbs from that, you just need to reduce that and allow for it

The real culprit comes from the rice, nan bread, and similar, which are obviously major sources of carbs
Replace these with more non carby veg, of which cauliflower rice is popular
And those little snacks like samosas & bahjis contain flour

I too used to enjoy giant curries washed down with oceans of beer. I still eat curries but I have modified them considerably to cut out rice, fatty minced beef, and all the rest of it. I've gone for smaller portions, no rice, much less beer, using olive oil, and so on
Also I've gone for Mediterranean and Middle Eastern cooking, which do contain spices, but not usually as hot or strongly spiced as Indian curries
Search around on YouTube and Amazon Books for things like Healthy, or Diabetic, or Weight Loss Curry/Mediterranean/Middle Eastern food, I'm sure there will be enough references, or adapt normal/high carb recipes

But if you like curry, by way of a diversion, Search YT for Village Kitchen India and Grandpa Kitchen India - you will probably need to reduce the quantities a bit!

 

[NotPink]

Wow. Get. Thank you for this. Will explore.

 

[NotPink]

That was meant to say 'great' not 'get'. ha ha...

 

[Felinia]

Hi Jogo1980
It sounds like your dad is fairly active, but that he and your mum follow the sort of diet my parents did to fill up. Hopefully now with some carb education he will be able to reduce his glucose levels steadily. The Forum for food/recipes will give you some idea of what Type 2 people eat.
I'm 71 so near your dad's age. I use an app NutraCheck to measure my daily carb intake and it's quite surprising how quickly the totals clock up. I experimented between 50gm and 130gm a day for carbs and settled on 90gm. But we are all different and need to find what suits us. If your dad measures immediately before and 2 hours after first bite of each meal he will soon learn what foods spike his glucose levels.
For example I found that one slice from a 400gm wholemeal loaf did not cause a big spike, so that lends itself to an open sandwich with lots of salads, meat, cheese egg etc piled on top. If your mum likes cooking, home made soup (without potato, flour, past or rice) blended to thicken, makes a good wintertime lunch. My diabetic nurse told me 2 new potatoes is a portion, as is 80gm berry fruits (and no more than 2 a day). I like a cooked breakfast, so a poached egg with grilled mushrooms, tomatoes and a rasher of back bacon is what I have most days. And cauliflower has become my go-to food - whole, riced, mashed instead of potato. It might be fun to try different things.
Hope all goes well.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Oh my goodness, the GP has never told him that he’s eating the wrong things, yet she asked him earlier and her advice was to give up the banana. Thank you so much for your help, I will now research the correct diet as we wait to hear from the 111 doctor. Many thanks again x

Welcome to the forum @Jogo1980

Sorry to hear about your Dad’s raised BG levels. Try not to be anxious - though they are really quite high, will probably be making him feel pretty lethargic and grim, with T2 there is often less immediate risk. Certainly wise to keep an eye on things, but hopefully he will have time to make some menu adjustments and/or try some additional medications.

The diet he is on may be fine for different people so I don’t believe the GP gave the ‘wrong’ advice, it’s just that it needs a little adjustment for your Dad. One of the tricky things about diabetes is there is no one simple dietary approach that works for everyone. Each person has a different tolerance to amounts and types of carbohydrate. By gradually reducing portion sizes of the main carbs in his meals, he may reach a point where his metabolism can just potter along happily. For others a more significant reduction in carbohydrate works better.

Keeping a food diary for a week or two, and making a reasonable estimate of the total carbohydrate content of meals and snacks can be really helpful. it can feel like a bit of a faff, and will involve some packet-squinting and weighing scales, but there is valuable learning in where the carbs are found in his meals, and what simple tweaks can lower the carb load.

As an example, creamy greek yoghurt with a spoonful of muesli and more berries, and dropping the banana, will be a very similar breakfast, but will have a much lower carb content than one which is mostly muesli. If the greek yoghurt is full fat it will help him feel fuller for longer.

Hope he manages to get the blood tests done without any hassle (given the current shortage of tubes!) and that you both get some reassuring support and advice from his GP.

 

[Leadinglights]

Wow. Get. Thank you for this. Will explore.

If you are making curries it is better to use dry spices or spice mixes rather than bought jars of prepared sauces. It might take a bit of tweaking to get it to your taste.
You can still have the accompaniments like the yogurt and cucumber or tomato and onion mix.

 

[zuludog]

If you are making curries it is better to use dry spices or spice mixes rather than bought jars of prepared sauces. It might take a bit of tweaking to get it to your taste.
You can still have the accompaniments like the yogurt and cucumber or tomato and onion mix.

Ah yes, I assumed we were thinking of dry/powdered spices
Many prepared spice mixes will contain carbs like sugar & starch, and oil; as do ready made sauces for pasta; as we know, sugar finds its way into all sorts of things

As with most things food related, the best way to know what you're eating is to make it yourself