BERTIE Online

[missclb]

Hey peeps,

So in a bid to completely nail my control again, I decided to give the ol' carb counting another whirl. I've just completed the BERTIE online course (I live outside of the UK so haven't had access to DAFNE courses) and just got my certificate – woohoo! Happy bunny.

I was just wondering if anyone knows if DAFNE and BERTIE more or less the same? Do UK doctors see both as being of the same value?

I thought carb counting wasn't for me because I dont tend to eat out of nicely labelled packaged foods, and last time I carb counted I got a bit bored of weighing everything out. But BERTIE introduced me to the carbs and cals app which works in pictures (and weights) and that totally works for me. So far so good.

Just shows you it's worth revisiting things and not getting stuck in your ways! You CAN teach an old dog new tricks.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

As far as know DAFNE and BERTIE are very similar in the basics and fundemental techniques. I'd be surprised if there weren't a few differences here and there though!

 

[missclb]

Good to know, thanks @everydayupsanddowns

 

[TheClockworkDodo]

I've been told I need to have done a carb-counting course before I can get a pump, and I can't do DAFNE because I'm not well enough to attend something like that. I asked my DSN if I could do BERTIE instead and she said I could. I'm not sure if she or UK doctors generally would see them as being of exactly the same value, because interaction with other diabetics is an important part of DAFNE - but she obviously thinks BERTIE is a perfectly acceptable alternative!

 

[Bruce Stephens]

I assume they're all rather similar in content. I'm not clear why there's more than one; my guess is that there's some cost to DAFNE which is sufficient to justify the others. The NICE guidelines recommend a structured evidence-based course (or something like that) which suggests there's more than one of them that they consider suitable.

(It's probably hard to be sure since I guess most patients are only going to do one such course. For what it's worth the one i went on was called IDAP, and they recommended bertieonline, which suggests they don't disagree with each other.)

 

[novorapidboi26]

I've been told I need to have done a carb-counting course before I can get a pump, and I can't do DAFNE because I'm not well enough to attend something like that. I asked my DSN if I could do BERTIE instead and she said I could. I'm not sure if she or UK doctors generally would see them as being of exactly the same value, because interaction with other diabetics is an important part of DAFNE - but she obviously thinks BERTIE is a perfectly acceptable alternative!

I would be very confident BERTIE would be more than enough in the context of obtaining a pump.......

The value of face to face contact with other diabetics is great but irrelevant to pumping......they want to make sure you have learned and adopted the dose adjustment routine and are able to respond to changes with adjustment of dose......

in reality not all people come away from either course with a good grasp of the principles or a good routine in place..... [basal testing, written records, correction sensitivity, insulin/carb ratios]

 

[TheClockworkDodo]

in reality not all people come away from either course with a good grasp of the principles or a good routine in place..... [basal testing, written records, correction sensitivity, insulin/carb ratios]

Whereas others of us feel we're being forced to do a GCSE in a subject in which we already have a degree 🙄

 

[novorapidboi26]

Whereas others of us feel we're being forced to do a GCSE in a subject in which we already have a degree 🙄

Ha ha, thats unfortunate.......

with DAFNE at least or whatever the local alternative is you can go and listen without too much effort and take what you need if you choose to.......the online courses are a bit more tedious I would imagine....😉

 

[trophywench]

Once NICE agreed that a formal carb counting course was an excellent idea for T1s and clinics finally realised that us old uns had been playing it by ear for decades - not realising there even WAS a way that relied much more on logic than pure guesswork - to begin with the ONLY two courses that met their criteria were DAFNE and BERTIE.

CCGs do have to pay for DAFNE on an ongoing basis I understand, whereas BERTIE was and still is, only available to patients at BDEC. However, Dr David Cavan (then in charge of BDEC) made it possible to train other hospital staff on how to deliver the relevant info to patients in a structured way. Those staff had to go away, design their own course, give it its own name, and have the content, handouts, everything, approved at BDEC. If approved - they could start delivering it to patients - but someone from BDEC was there as observer and would give advice if necessary.

I have absolutely no idea who authorises what, these days!

The online version of the course (both versions) were originally beta tested by members of www.diabetes-support.org.uk Forum.

I agree it's probably tedious for you Juliet - but just grit your teeth and jump through the hoop! (Silly though it most likely is, in your case) It is NOT silly for ordinary T1s.

 

[TheClockworkDodo]

Thank you for implying I'm extraordinary, Jenny

 

[Drummer]

For me as a type two having a set of electronic scales which can be reset to zero with a plate or bowl sitting on them used to be the way I put out almost all my meals - it was an interesting process to see how my numbers altered just by taking 10 gm less of some foods or adding 10 gm more. It was something as simple as one of those plumb bob things the old Romans used for their engineering projects, where most of the accuracy came from the skill of the user, but without it there would have been a lot of wonky walls and off the angle squares.