Animal experimentation

[Liz!]

I have, this morning, been sent an email to protest at the building of a facility in the UK by an American company, to breed and experiment on beagles. Not for make-up or shampoo, but for medical things.

We, all of us here, are alive, and benefiting form new types of insulin and drugs, because of experimentation like this.

Consequently I never know what to do about appeals like this. I feel hypocritical signing petitions etc. What do the rest of you do?

 

[Caroline]

Personaly I think this is a very emotive area and there are a lot of strong feelings round the whole issue. Although I feel we need these drugs, I try not to get drawn in to signing petitions or into conversation.

 

[Catwoman76]

I have, this morning, been sent an email to protest at the building of a facility in the UK by an American company, to breed and experiment on beagles. Not for make-up or shampoo, but for medical things.

We, all of us here, are alive, and benefiting form new types of insulin and drugs, because of experimentation like this.

Consequently I never know what to do about appeals like this. I feel hypocritical signing petitions etc. What do the rest of you do?

I really can't bear the thought of experimenting on poor defenceless animals. They haven't given their consent, they can't say how good or bad the experiment is, how they feel. This is man's best friend, supossibly. It's so so difficult Liz, I wish they could find another way. I love animals so much. I would probably sign it. Sheena

 

[chrismbee]

Experimenting on animals provides crucial information on how to treat humans - as you say, Liz, many of us wouldn't be here today, were it not for such experimentation.
The issue of morality involves issues such as benefit to humankind vs. pain/suffering of the laboratory creatures.
Whilst I am opposed to unnecessarty cruelty, I also acknowledge that we can derive life-saving (prolonging?) benefit from justified research.
I, personally, could never condone animal experiments merely to improve the quality of cosmetics and would, consequently, not hesitate in adding my voice to the list of those against such practices.
However, if there is a valid medical reason, then I'm afraid that I have to put humans first.

 

[Liz!]

i do feel that insulin-wise, we have enough - the thing now is to get an artificial pancreas, and that experimentation should be able to be carried out on us. This is part of the reason I get cross when I hear that a new insulin has come out - I read in the medical review by a peer Dr for Lantus for example that the coverall control obtained with it was not any better than on two NPH injections.

There are many conditions that have no cure yet. But so many drugs being made that are really not needed. Another anti-histamine for example.

 

[Catwoman76]

i do feel that insulin-wise, we have enough - the thing now is to get an artificial pancreas, and that experimentation should be able to be carried out on us. This is part of the reason I get cross when I hear that a new insulin has come out - I read in the medical review by a peer Dr for Lantus for example that the coverall control obtained with it was not any better than on two NPH injections.

There are many conditions that have no cure yet. But so many drugs being made that are really not needed. Another anti-histamine for example.

yes, it's so true what you are saying liz, I do agree with you. If they decided to find a cure for my legs, experimenting on animals, then I would say no, test it on me instead. I would be willing to be that dog or monkey or rabbit. SHEENA

 

[Robster65]

There was an incident a couple of years ago where some students were paid for research and several were hospitalised and, I think, one died.

Sadly, many effects cannot be anticipated and I guess it's seen as more acceptable for an animal to die than a human.

This will depend on an individual's point of view and whether they have an ailment that would improve from research or not.

It could be seen as unfair of people who don't have any illnesses to campaign for stopping animal experiments since they have nothing to lose or gain.

It's a toughy. I'm a huge animal lover but can't say that I'd give it all up so that no animals have to go through it. As has been said, you have to hope that they are respected and given as much care as they deserve.

Rob

 

[Catwoman76]

There was an incident a couple of years ago where some students were paid for research and several were hospitalised and, I think, one died.

Sadly, many effects cannot be anticipated and I guess it's seen as more acceptable for an animal to die than a human.

This will depend on an individual's point of view and whether they have an ailment that would improve from research or not.

It could be seen as unfair of people who don't have any illnesses to campaign for stopping animal experiments since they have nothing to lose or gain.

It's a toughy. I'm a huge animal lover but can't say that I'd give it all up so that no animals have to go through it. As has been said, you have to hope that they are respected and given as much care as they deserve.

Rob

Yes Rob, I remember that incident. Instead of staggering the drug they gave it to the individuals at the same time, it was a horrific. Sheena

 

[veganlass]

Oh lordy, dont start me off. Being one who has demonstrated against vivisection I will keep out of this post!!.


😱

 

[HelenM]

I just think that if it weren't for experiments like those Banting and Best did on dogs many of us wouldn't be alive, Research using animals is still helping us find out about the underlying metabolic problems of of diabetes it's complications and of course many other conditions. I definitely wouldn't sign it.
Website here with details of the UK legislation
http://www.aboutanimaltesting.co.uk/use-animals-for-testing-monitoring-regulations.html

 

[mcdonagh47]

I just think that if it weren't for experiments like those Banting and Best did on dogs many of us wouldn't be alive, Research using animals is still helping us find out about the underlying metabolic problems of of diabetes it's complications and of course many other conditions. I definitely wouldn't sign it.
Website here with details of the UK legislation
http://www.aboutanimaltesting.co.uk/use-animals-for-testing-monitoring-regulations.html

Yes and you also have to rememebr that many of these animals ( lab rats etc) are bred specifically for the purpose and wouldn't even be alive otherwise ( same as most racehorses).

 

[veganlass]

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAM...L///?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4dc9a280382ba502,0


Warning Graphic.


See alternative:



http://www.drhadwentrust.org/

 

[caffeine_demon]

I have mixed feelings about it.

I don't really agree with cosmetics testing and some of the general product testing on things which have been around for years.

however - I think medical animal testing still has a place, and has resulted in some real breakthroughs - even if it's not 100% successful.

Maybe some day there will be an option which is as good as (or better than) animal testing, but in the mean time it's a necessary evil.

 

[veganlass]

Dr Hadwyn Trust and The Humane research trust is alternatives. A way forward.
Vivisection is a false science.

 

[trophywench]

Oh I'm only alive cos somebody experimented on dogs - so how can I protest? And even if I wasn't diabetic I wouldn't protest. Look at Thalidomide! - they didn't test that properly did they?

What I object to is out and out CRUELTY to animals, such as buying a huge dog and not feeding it what it should eat, not exercising it sufficiently or not training them and thinking shouting will do it. Or setting mink free from a mink farm which of course went on a killing spree of all defenceless creatures in the vicinity, because that is what they do in the wild. They don't just kill to eat as most wild animals do - mink just kill. Never forgotten the male black swan whose mate was done in by mink at the place my husband worked. Poor thing pined to death without his wife.

As for the appalling behaviour of the so called anti vivisectionists against the family at that guinea-pig breeding farm a couple of years ago, including digging up the grandmother's grave - well I think they ought to be experimented on frankly. (Couldn't do lobotomies though cos they must have had that done already!)

Ooops, I seem to feel rather strongly about this issue don't I? - I'll shut up now! LOL

 

[Ellie Jones]

Hard call, I won't be signing as because I here today due to past experiments on animals and I've used animal insulins I would be a tad bit of a hypocrit doing so...

But I do agree with when it comes to visection should only be granted under very special circumstances, as it stands most countries do have legisations and strict polices that govern the keeping and housing of any animal used...

Whether these go far enough to ensure that only esentrial visection is carried out would be a thing to debate..

I do know some alternitive methods that could be used, but somebody would complain of breaches of basic human rights, moral and ethical reason to why this method couldn't be considered let alone used!

 

[veganlass]

Re mink release:There is strong evidence at the time that the mink farmer released them and blamed AR as the fur farms were closing due to a UK ban on fur farms.

I am afraid there is no such thing as Cruelty Free milk, eggs,meat and fish.

 

[Copepod]

Perhaps I'm odd, but I choose not to use cosmetics - can't be bothered with make up etc, and have probably saved ?100s over the years. We use the minimum of cleaning products, and choose partly on the basis of animal testing, as well as environmental qualities, although using minimum quantities is often key - eg clothes washing liquid recommendations are usually about twice what is needed.

I eat meat, but choose it carefully eg have eaten culled goose, rabbit etc killed as pests, because if they had to be killed, then their bodies should be used in full. When we killed one of our ducks which turned out to be male, despite assurances "she" was female, we used everything - meat, blood for black puddings, down for refluffing sections of sleeping bags & duvet jackets, larger feathers for teaching at environmental education centre. The ducks in my avatar are currently laying 1 or 2 eggs per day between them, while controlling slug & snail numbers in our veg patch.

I'm also involved in trying to recapture minks in a stream where water vole numbers have declined in recent years. It does seem that mink farmers released minks when farms became uneconomic and blamed animal rights activists, although it's impossible to say which mink today came from which release, not least because they have bred since release.

However, I'm one of thsoe who probably wouldn't be alive if not for Banking & Best's experiments on dogs in 1920s. These days, being a human volunteer in medical research is something I chose to do, as it's more realistic than using animals, plus I can give informed consent. Also, cell culture is a big component in many current research studies, which don't involve whole humans or animals as subjects.

 

[AlisonM]

I don't really see how much use testing on dogs will be, they're not genetically all that close to us so, on those grounds, I'd probably sign the petition. Not that I like the idea of using pigs or apes any better, but as others have said without that research many of us would have died long since. I don't like it, I don't like it one bit but I can't see any other viable alternative at the moment. I understand that there are alternatives on the horizon, stem cell research would be one, but I have probems with that too as it matters to me where the stem cells come from.

I rarely wear makeup and what body or home products I do use are either home made, or sourced from Fair Trade, environmentally friendly suppliers. Beware of any supplier/seller that says their products have not been tested on animals because everything used on or in humans has been tested on animals at some point in the last century.

Finally, our record for all kinds of medical research is a dark and shameful thing. The greatest advances in medical science over the last 100 years came as a direct result of experiments carried out in concentration camps and prisons. Transplant surgery being a prime example.

I for one will be abzsolutely delighted when the time comes when no living thing must suffer for our survival. Roll on the day.

 

[Twitchy]

Personally, I would not sign. I believe very few things in life are black & white, (ie I could not be a pacifist either, much as I hate the idea of war & killing) and I realise this is an emotive issue, but I would not be here today if it were not for those early experiments on dogs to test insulin - I would not even have survived my first year of life.

Much as I hate the idea of testing on animals, I have to acknowledge that sometimes there is no alternative. I am a fairly pragmatic person - I don't wear make up, or use lots of products, & I do try & select products & produce as responsibly as I can... My take on things is that if we use animals for food / other resources, we should be responsible & make sure they have a good life, are treated humanely & if/when they are killed, it should be as painless & trauma free as possible. We should not waste anything either (another reason to approve of sausages! 😉) Animal testing on rats in the not too distant past identified problems with asthma drugs - the drugs seemed to work perfectly, it was only when the rats were examined post mortem that it became clear that the drug was destroying their livers - if those drugs had been trialled on human volunteers, it would have been disastrous. I hate, really hate the idea of animal testing, but I could not put my qualms above the possibility that it might help find a cure or effective treatment for any number of conditions. Not a comfortable thought though.